T Boone Pickens Plan for Energy

[Mule]

This guy is no fool.

http://www.pickensplan.com/

[Red Baron]

He should be writing the US energy plan. The guy has been trying to tell Washington what they need to do for over 20 years and not one administration has taken heed.

[island911]

What's his angle? Does he want govt money for his wind projects? ...is he invested in NG?

..I'm suspicious when the focus is on the problem (like, duh...) and not the solution. Also, it seems that market forces will bring in alternate sources as oil prices go nuts.

...off course newbies like Obama Jr. will just tax the hell out of any energy source anyway.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

He should be writing the US energy plan. The guy has been trying to tell Washington what they need to do for over 20 years and not one administration has taken heed.

Sounds like Carters plan 31 years ago.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_energy.html

[red-beard]

If his choice was Nuclear instead of Wind, we would be on the same page. The problem with Wind power, is that it is only economic if there is a tax break, which there is.

The numbers being thrown around are 2 Billion for 1000MW. For a Combined Cycle plant, a 300 MW plant costs about $120-150 million, or about half the cost of a wind farm. Maintentance is far far lower on a conventional plant as well. Yes, the fuel costs money. But wind cannot produce power on a non-windy day.

If T Boone wants to invest into it, I bet it is a good bet, though. OTOH, why is he advertising? Maybe he wants to find other investors, and once the value of his investment is up, he bails.

[The Gaijin]

Wind power is a joke and all about tax breaks, credits and write offs. The major investors are Wall Street and big name players like Boone.

A taxpayer funded scam.

[sammyg2]

He has a financial stake in his proposed plans.

[onewhippedpuppy]

How is wind power a joke? It's free energy, without pollution. The ROI may not be great (I honestly don't know), but it's better than scams like ethanol. One thing I can tell you for sure, in the large wind farm along I-70 in central KS, the damn things are always spinning. Also, the red lights on top of them blink in unison, and at night it looks like the aliens from "War of the Worlds".

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

How is wind power a joke? It's free energy, without pollution. The ROI may not be great (I honestly don't know), but it's better than scams like ethanol.

Very few free things in this world..

It simply does not work without being propped up by my tax dollars. I am against that.

And they may be fine in Kansas - but they are a blight on natural landscapes in other areas.

Much like ethanol - a feel good diversion, slowing us from making real steps towards energy independence and a cleaner world.

[David]

It won't work.

Coal, nuclear, and wind are designed to be base load, i.e. run WOT all the time.

Unless you have plenty of hydro, natual gas is the only feasible way to follow the electric load.

I agree we need more wind power, but the cost of the wind mills pales in comparison to the cost of new transmission lines required to support them.

Nuclear is good to, but like he said it'll be 10 years before new Nucs come online.

There are still many old gas plants running with efficiencies around 31%. These should be replaced with combined cycle gas plants with efficiencies of 50 to 60%.

[onewhippedpuppy]

If they're going to piss away my tax dollars, I'd rather them use them on something that WORKS. They create energy, and don't pollute. How can you knock that? I'm not a tree-hugging global warming greenie, but even I'm happy to see some alternatives to coal. No, they're by no means the entire answer, but they are PART of it. As for the looks, that's entirely subjective, but I think they're pretty cool. Until they're putting them in Yellowstone or beaches in SoCal, complaining about them seems rather trivial.

[2.7RACER]

Wind power looks much better to me than $5 gallon fuel.
T Boone Pickens has spent his entire life producing energy for the US.
When he speaks we at least owe him the respect to listen.

[The Gaijin]

Trivial until they are out your window and never stop spinning.. Maybe not a blight in an area of feedlots - but they sure are in the Catskills and other places in the northeast.

And no - they do not work - when you look at what is a reasonable electric rate. The cost to build, the costs to maintain, the actual output of power and losses and costs of transmission of the electric generated - it just does not add up.

Sorry.

[Moses]

Good to see a heavy hitter like Pickens enter the arena. Sad to see that he dismissed nuclear from the equation early in the discussion. Wind is a great resource, but it has a BIG footprint. Ultimately, wind may contribute significantly to our domestic energy needs, but nuclear is the obvious choice to provide our base load. Nuclear even dove-tails nicely into alternative energy transportation needs. Nukes like to run at full capacity 24/7. During off-peak hours, nuclear plants can generate electricity for charging 3rd generation electric vehicles or even generate hydrogen for new fuel-cell vehicles. It is the best (and cleanest) solution to our domestic energy needs.

Have a look at the new Pebble Reactor technology;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_reactor

Do I want one in my backyard? Hell yes! Small footprint. Safest, cleanest power source we have. No need for cooling towers. You can build them anywhere.

[john70t]

Nuclear fuel is not inexhaustable either.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by john70t

Nuclear fuel is not inexhaustable either.

Not true. Uranium is an extremely common element. It's found throughout the earths crust and in high concentrations in seawater. Currently, we only mine the easy to get stuff. In 100 years or so, we may need to extract uranium from seawater at an increased cost. It is inconceivable that we could run out of uranium.

[kstar]

With so many windmills, we're likely to run out of wind.

Look what all the clocks and watches did to time; I hardly have any left!

Best,

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

With so many windmills, we're likely to run out of wind.

Look what all the clocks and watches did to time; I hardly have any left!

Best,

On the other hand, if you work faster, approacing relativistic speeds, your time will slow down. So, get busy if you want more free time!

[David]

I predict the biggest drop in oil consumption will come from electric cars. The only way this will happen is if the cost of oil is high enough, which is happening.

This will shift oil consumption to nuclear, coal, natural gas, wind, and hydro which we already have.

Sure we'll need more powerplants and better batteries, but that's in the works right now.

[Jim Richards]

We also need to look at our electrical transmission/distribution grid with an eye on handling the necessary capacity to support widespread adoption of electric cars.