What's Wrong With Concours

[RWebb]

This isn't really a technical issue, so I thought that OT might be a better place for it.

What do you think is wrong with Concours -- or with the attitude of people who are really into concours?

or.. what do you just not like about councours, "the scene," or the people and their attitudes?

In biology, especially ecology, we have a term called "museum mentality" i.e. "He has a museum mentality." It isn't a real positive thing to say about a scientist. OTOH, museums are critical to preserving our understanding of how things were, and therefore how they got to be like the present.

[Jim Richards]

Q-tips. It's the symbol of OCD.

Driving these cars is more interesting to me than fussing over them like the concour crowd.

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Driving these cars is more interesting to me than fussing over them like the concour crowd.

PLUS 1,000! I drive mine daily: when the interior wears out, I'll have it reupholstered...as the mechanicals get tired, I'll rebuild them...when the paint/body shows it's age I'll have it freshened up! There's no way I'm gonna leave it in the garage and worry about every little spec! To each his own...

[Scooter]

Nothing wrong with Concours. They enjoy preserving their car. It is their car and they should be able to do what they want with it. If you have a problem with Concours, then it is your problem, not theirs.

I'm not a Concours guy either, but I do like to see preserved cars.

[Rick Lee]

I see less reason for concours on newer or common cars. They seem to be very replaceable. But you gotta get chills down your spine when you come across a real 904 or an MB Gullwing. Those are truly works of art and need to be preserved. I've seen a 250GT on the street and all I could think was "God, I hope he makes it home without a scratch."

[dd74]

Concours is fine. I respect concours people. They aren't anymore bothersome than the modified crowd (case in point, the 250 bhp CIS thread going on in Tech right now). Needless to say, if one is looking for good historical baseline, in the case of the 911, concours people are probably the most informed on the subject.

In fact, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably buy a stock 911 and leave it that way. These cars are fine as they are from the factory, and in some cases, can be "adjusted" with their stock parts for better-than-factory performance.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I see less reason for concours on newer or common cars. They seem to be very replaceable.

+1

I've seen cars at concours that are less than a year old - what's the point?

[Jim Richards]

Thom, you always struck me as a concours type of guy.

[the]

there's nothing wrong with concours or the scene. I did concours PCA events for a couple of years. it was fun to me for a while but I must admit I got bored with it after 5 or 6 events. but that's just me.

I thought the scene was fine, tho. people were helpful and friendly, and the majority actually drove and used their cars.

[dd74]

The day I see a concours 996 touted as such, the world better have run out of oil, rubber, and people are using jet packs. Otherwise, what would be the point?

[pwd72s]

Not a thing wrong with concours...I always liked having a clean car. My pride was in actually driving to an event, and still getting a trophy...a benefit is that as you clean, you learn the car...

[sand_man]

I guess I'm thinking of the cars that never get driven or end up in a collection as a trophy and never see the light of day. Museum pieces? It's true that many in the concours world use their cars and make the effort to clean them for judging.

I think that's what I like so much about the vintage racing scene - that an owner would be willing to subject their "investment" to the rigors of the track! Even the Rennsport Reunions: the very idea that someone would take a purpose built 908, 917, 934, 935, 962, et al, and thrash it around a track (even at careful speeds), rather than leaving it behind a velvet rope as a security guard stands watch! I believe the cars should be used. What are they being preserved for? A pharo's tomb? There's enough talent in this world to restore any car. Run it and fix/clean it.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Not a thing wrong with concours...I always liked having a clean car. My pride was in actually driving to an event, and still getting a trophy...a benefit is that as you clean, you learn the car...

I can get behind this. I've spent years now restoring my '72. All along, I've said that it will be a 9/10 car. At this point, it is more like a 95/100 car, but the same idea. The car will be done this summer and I'm really looking forward to driving it to the fall PCA wash'n'shine show. However, I've seen what goes into the 'serious' cars. A friend of mine has been spending the last several months preparing a GS Carrera that just scored 296 points at Parade. I respect the work and I was awestruck by the car, but I won't ever have the time to do that kind of prep myself. If I hit the lottery, sure, but in the meantime I've got family, work, and more interesting hobbies.

[Pazuzu]

I wonder what a 1973 911E that was picked off directly off the end of the assembly line and dropped down into a concours event would score (dropped from a very low height, obviously)

[grudk]

At face value, I have no issues with concours events. I do think that there is a 'trophy' mentality that is often encountered, however. I find it off-putting, and would prefer to see the cars being used as originally intended, rather than polished and coveted. Just seems like a waste to me, but to each his own.

[widgeon13]

Some folks with deep pockets buy a car, give it to someone along with a blank check and say prep it for concour, that to me is BS. Everything is put on new and you have a winner w/o much effort at least on the owners behalf.

Nothing wrong with that I suppose.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Thom, you always struck me as a concours type of guy.

Um, yeah....

[cairns]

"Some folks with deep pockets buy a car, give it to someone along with a blank check and say prep it for concour, that to me is BS. Everything is put on new and you have a winner w/o much effort at least on the owners behalf.

Nothing wrong with that I suppose."

So true but not near as respectable as those who do it themselves. I'm glad the rich are restoring and saving the Bugattis, Duesenbergs and Ferraris of the world but a guy like Leno (who I know at least got his hands dirty) or the guy who restored his old MGB or 911 impresses me a lot more than a soemone who bought a trophy.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Some folks with deep pockets buy a car, give it to someone along with a blank check and say prep it for concour, that to me is BS. Everything is put on new and you have a winner w/o much effort at least on the owners behalf.

Nothing wrong with that I suppose.

The thrill is when you beat these folks at their own game, doing it all yourself. Rainbonnet '93...an Oregon Region event. My old driver got 293 points, 1st in class, and was voted people's choice.

As a friend said later; "Paul, you angered all the right people."

That was my final serious concours...decided to quit while I was ahead.

[Hugh R]

I judge the Los Angeles and Palos Verdes concours almost every year. I judge mostly British sports cars. The biggest thing I see is overrestoration. Highly polished aluminum that wasn't done that way at the factory, or painted engine compartment when it was undercoated. People forget it's a competition like any other contest/sport. There is a lot to be said for original, but not everything has to be original/mint condition. To each his own.