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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 21,159
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Using GPS to beat speeding tickets
Nabbed for speeding? GPS data could get you off the hook
By Jacqui Cheng | Published: July 18, 2008 As anyone who has ever gotten a speeding ticket knows (full disclosure: I never have... knock on wood), you often have very little ammo to fight back against the reading that the all-knowing radar gun spat out. But thanks to more sophisticated and affordable technology, that could be changing. A California teen is using GPS data to attempt to get himself off the hook for allegedly going 17 miles per hour over the speed limit, simultaneously casting doubt on the accuracy of police radars and giving hope to tech-savvy drivers. The story started out simply enough. 18-year-old Shaun Malone was caught by a police radar going 62 in a 45 mph zone last summer. Under most circumstances, most people would assume that this was all simply true—it's not unheard of for teenagers to speed, after all. Malone's parents knew differently, though. It turns out that they had installed a GPS device from Rocky Mountain Tracking in his car in order to monitor his driving behavior. But this was far more sophisticated than your everyday "turn left at the stop light" kind of GPS device—it tracked his speed, sending signals every 30 seconds, and was even capable of sending e-mail alerts to Malone's parents if Shaun ever exceeded 70mph. (I'm thanking my lucky stars right now that my parents didn't have access to this technology when I was a teenager.) According to the data from Shaun's GPS device, he and his parents argued that he was going exactly 45mph at almost the exact time the police radar clocked him going 62. Unfortunately for the Malones, Shaun was found guilty of speeding in a trial-by-affidavit thanks to a report from an expert saying that the GPS data could not have been accurate. The Malones appealed the decision, however, with a hearing in the Sonoma County Superior Court earlier this month. During the new trial—where both the city and the Malones pulled out all the stops to bring in experts to argue their sides of the case, according to PressDemocrat—the same GPS expert was called to testify. Dr. Stephen Heppe ended up backtracking on his original report, however, once he was on the stand. Rocky Mountain Tracking says that Heppe "corrected" his original statements and painted the device as being quite accurate after all, "to within a couple of meters on location and to within 1mph on speed." When the judge rules on the case in October, he could be let off the hook for his $190 speeding ticket. But the implications of the case go far beyond $190—it could change how speeding tickets are handled in the future. "This case has caught the attention of the nation, and it will set a precedent on how police departments use speed traps in the face of an increased GPS presence," Rocky Mountain Tracking president Brad Borst said in a statement. "The accuracy and reliability of GPS has helped bring this important issue into the limelight." Of course, Borst is happy to talk up using GPS data to help keep you out of speeding tickets, as his commercial interests are in line with your interests in proving yourself innocent. However, the outcome of the case may suggest that consumer tech has reached a point at which it's considered accurate enough to hold up in court. Does this mean everyone should run out and buy GPS units for their cars that can track speed and location down to three digits to the right of the decimal point? Perhaps, if you feel the cost is worth the peace of mind and you're not a big speeder. But, as HotHardware points out, that same data could eventually be used against you, too. All the police have to do is obtain subpoena for your GPS data when you argue that you weren't really lead-footing it down a straight stretch of the highway a couple of weeks ago.. Update: Several corrections have been made regarding the conclusion of the case, as it is still ongoing. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080718-nabbed-for-speeding-gps-data-could-get-you-off-the-hook.html |
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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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Maybe this will force the return of due process to traffic court?
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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Dog-faced pony soldier
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One can hope, but I think that's being extremely idealistic. Especially now that building permit and property tax revenues are down - local governments are looking for every possible other way to keep money flowing into their wasteful slush funds and keeping their bloated bureaucracies flush with citizen cash. . .
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A car, a 911, a motorbike and a few surfboards Black Cars Matter |
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Registered
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Summerdale Al.
Posts: 222
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The only thing traffic courts know how to process is the check they feel they are due. It is fun to dream though.
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'89 NA |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 5,851
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lacey, WA. USA
Posts: 25,305
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I have to agree with Chris, Jeff. Or perhaps, sensing the potential for sharing an opinion with Superman, perhaps Chris will report a similar lack of confidence in gubmit. I myself am skeptical. But.......
1) I would welcome a return of due process to traffic court and 2) Here is a little-known fact: Government, in a democracy, answers to the People. The government is our administrative arm. Government is not "them." It is "us." BTW, judges appreciate this presumption of guilt even less than we do. In Washington State, at least in many cases, the judge is not free to consider circumstances and make decisions. The judges I have spoken with are not favorably impressed. Predictably.
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Man of Carbon Fiber (stronger than steel) Mocha 1978 911SC. "Coco" |
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I want to know if the family ended up paying thousands to beat a $190 ticket?
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Dog-faced pony soldier
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I agree with Supe although I'd add (to his point #2) that we no longer have a democracy. We have a plutocratic semi-representative bureaucracy. Anyone who honestly thinks that government today is any longer accountable to the people is simply nuts. MAYBE there's still time to rein it in and get it back to the "accountable-to-the-people" model intended by the founding fathers, but I doubt it. I think this is now a runaway train and we will continue to see government seize rights from the citizenry at increasingly alarming pace in the coming months/years. This return and rise of tyrrany will only ultimately end one way, and we all know what that is.
The question is: how bad and tyrannical will the people allow things to get before they demand change and (more importantly) take the actions required to make it happen? Jury's out on that one (no pun) but I'm guessing on the order of decades, not years. People today are far too apathetic.
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A car, a 911, a motorbike and a few surfboards Black Cars Matter |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lacey, WA. USA
Posts: 25,305
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Our hopes are the same. Our disappointments are also the same. Unfortunately, I lack your belief that a revolution will occur. This is, technically, still a democracy. If the people had a consensus vision, it would be an easy matter to hand gubmit it's new marching orders. The problem is not that they cannot enforce a vision. The problem is they won't try. When they get fed up enough to try, then the problem becomes data. Information.
It's not the democratic government model that is the problem. It is the preeminence of commercial things above social things. The making of money is more important than the freedom of the people. This thread is a good example of that. Although there are several industries working hard to control the traffic enforcment arm of government, the most active has been the insurance companies. Their wishes, and actions, have resulted in the development of the radar gun, the laser gun and the red light camera. Until America figures out that profits do not equal freedom, we will have problems. When America figures out that people are more important than profits or commerce....then the problems will get fixed. Capitalism is great, as an economic system. But not as a gubmit.
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Man of Carbon Fiber (stronger than steel) Mocha 1978 911SC. "Coco" |
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Quote:
If you don't like the job then don't do it.
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-The Mikester I heart Boobies |
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"Trial by declaration" is simple enough and has worked for me 100% of the time...
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991.1 RS - Lava Orange 991.1 GT3 - Sapphire Blue - gone 997.2 GT3 - Guards Red - gone 996 GT3 4 Liter - Basalt Black - gone |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: N. Phoenix AZ USA
Posts: 28,943
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This could get very interesting!
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2013 Jag XF, 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins (the workhorse), 1992 Jaguar XJ S-3 V-12 VDP (one of only 100 examples made), 1969 Jaguar XJ (been in the family since new), 1985 911 Targa backdated to 1973 RS specs with a 3.6 shoehorned in the back, 1959 Austin Healey Sprite (former SCCA H-Prod), 1995 BMW R1100RSL, 1971 & '72 BMW R75/5 "Toaster," Ural Tourist w/sidecar, 1949 Aeronca Sedan / QB |
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RETIRED
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Ever do a "History" on a GPS? One would think that it part of a subpoena and they could show where you DID exceed the limit.....
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1983/3.6, backdate to long hood 2012 ML350 3.0 Turbo Diesel |
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