Good point! Can you point out some "real issues" followed by "real solutions" from Obama? Maybe this guy can help you:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217779421.jpg

I'm sure you can find a friend that will help you sound-out the big words if you're having trouble ;)

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/

(from that page: Restore Fiscal Discipline to Washington

* Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama believes that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue. )

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

The discipline to confiscate the profit of corporations? Is that the fiscal discipline to which you refer? The discipline to send $854 billion to Africa? What? Since you apparently grasp all the big words, lay it out for us less fortunate folks. Paygo must mean take from those that produce, and give it to his potential voters? I am glad to know we can now add you to the long list of liberal loonies trying to tell us what Obama really meant!

I didn't say I agreed with everything. You said point out "real issues" and "real solutions." I did just that. I didn't say they were necessarily the "correct" solutions, though I do agree with some of them.

And everything he says is contrary to what he does. Solutions, those are schemes.

Listening to the radio, hearing reports by the local DJs on the comings and goings at Lollapalooza. They mentioned Obama may be making a appearance with ahead of Kanye West tonight. I have mixed feelings on wether or not this is a dignified thing for the potential leader of the free world, or a great opportunity for a candidate in his "hometown".

Back to spinning wrenches and preparing to enjoy next weekend. Next season may be bumpy no matter who wins this mess.

"everything"?

---
Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama believes that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.

PAYGO: Obama voted in 2005, 2006, and 2007 to reinstate pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) federal budget rules.
---

I'm sure he's flip-flopped on any number of things - show me a politician who hasn't.

But again you're very sloppy with your language and hyperbole. If you want to actually engage in meaningful discourse, you should tidy that up. Maybe the person who reads the big words out loud can also help with measured use of the language ;)

If he makes sense to you, then vote for him. My impression is that you'd vote democrat is they ran the donkey. Since we have 11 million Obama interpreters, here's one more. His socialist concept of paygo = tax corporations into submission. I bet you work for a corporation, huh?

I would value the opinion of a dirt farmer over an elitists in most cases.

Are you referring to the votes of project residents that I PERSONALLY witnessed arriving at the polls in out of state rented vans driven by union operatives, carrying their box of chicken, half pint of whiskey & $5 of walking around money?

What about the votes of educated fools who still cant understand that socialism has a record of 100% failure?

It seems were agreement about the flaws and inherent limitations of democracy as a method of choosing good government.

funny that the "liberal" (Dottore) comes of sounding like the cynical conservative and the "conservative" (sniper) is the wide-eye naive liberal.

There is a bit of a chicken/egg problem here. Democracy has serious issues with an uninformed voting population (witness the US ;)). So then the question becomes how best to education the masses and get them to the point where they can more fully participate in the process. Some would argue that a dictatorship might not be the best way to achieve this. But others could counter that a democracy isn't the ideal environment either.

Flaws are inherent to any system & ours is far from perfect. It's just better than every other system that has ever existed on planet earth.SmileWavy

To the contrary, elitism can very much exist on the left. Dottore is living proof.

I simply value the opinion of a 'dirt farmer' leading an honest hard working living over an 'intellectual' racist-elitist who thinks he knows what's best for all of us.

Period.

notice I didn't mention elitism - that exists on both sides of the aisle.

I believe this rates
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217800573.jpg

now is not the time for family snapshots...

Just.... sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
a tale of a faithful trip,
that started on the off-topic board,
until he committed a slip

The Mule was a faithful LSU fan,
The moderator sure.
The rest just sat and watched that day
for the ban island tour

Careful dude, I think you pulled his chain ;)

http://www.thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=2183

# Every now and then, Obama opens his eyes and the world springs into existence.

# Socks worn by Obama are used for climbing walls in Spiderman movies.

# "Obama" is the very first word in the English language to be a verb, adjective, noun, pronoun, adverb, interjection, superlative and pronad. (Pronad is a new category made specifically for the word "Obama" so its power can be fully realized).

# When Obama squints dreamily into the distance, he can see next week's lottery winning numbers. But he never plays because that would mean poverty of ambition.

# A microphone into which Obama has spoken, heals asbestos-related disorders and colorectal cancer by direct application.

# Every time Obama talks about change, a baby diaper becomes clean and a homeless person's cup fills up with nickels.

# Every time Obama talks about "hope," coma patients regain consciousness and chant "We are the ones we've been waiting for."

# Obama's famous stare once converted 15 Islamic fundamentalists into secular progressives, all of whom are currently employed by Countrywide Home Loans.

# Obama's real mother was young John Kerry who reproduces asexually when coming into contact with foreign Marxists.

# Obama often says "uh" in his speeches in order to irritate Bill O'Rilley who hangs onto his every word.

# Obama always overpays his taxes because he believes that the government will find a better use for his money than he ever could.

# When Obama rids the world of nuclear weapons, the red button in his office will control the thermostats in American homes.

# After a hearty meal Obama has been known to send off a tiny ripple of hope. This tiny ripple of hope in Chicago can cause change throughout the world.

# When Obama relaxes at home with his family he switches to a British accent.

# Monica Lewinsky owns "I Barack for Obama" bumper sticker.

# Everything Obama touches begins to vote Democrat.

# More dead people voted for Obama than for any other Democrat candidate in the history of Chicago politics.

# The tingle that crawled up Chris Matthews' leg has taken control of his brain and is reporting a full preparedness to take over the world.

# Obama can make things disappear just like David Copperfield can, but he hates taking things away from the community.

# The US Postal Service published Obama's resume on a new first class stamp.

# In the movies, Obama's part is played by Robert Redford.

# Obama can inflate a hot air balloon in one blow. He does it for the children.

# Obama used to spell his name as Ubama but changed it to avoid confusion with Usama bin Laden.

# When Obama fixes his gaze on the clouds, he is reading his next great line from the big teleprompter in the sky, which is unseen to ordinary humans.

# Obama wrote "Stairway to Heaven" and many other songs popular among the downtrodden.

# Obama's love for the downtrodden heats up the planet's atmosphere by 5.8 degrees Fahrenheit, while his loathing of George W. Bush cools it down by the same amount. That's why the scientists have been unable to detect any significant variations in average global temperatures.

# The main point of Al Gore's book "Earth in the Balance" is that a disastrous climate change can be averted if we all help keep Obama emotionally balanced.

# Scientists discovered that a constant repetition of the words "hope" and "change" increases the size of penis in male patients by up to three inches.

# Any sentence containing the name "Obama" and ending in a question mark has been determined to be racist. The only exceptions are rhetorical sentences such as "Is there any way that Obama could be more perfect?"

# Obama smokes so you don't have to.

# Obama's cigarettes have been registered at the EPA as a renewable power source contributing 5,000 Megawatts of electricity to the national power grid every time he takes a draw.

# The "smoke" that comes out of Obama's mouth contains rare gases that help replenish the ozone layer and neutralize the industrial pollution.

# Obama once downed a Fox News satellite simply by clicking on a universal TV remote in his living room. Obama then reprogrammed the remaining satellites to broadcast reruns of Keith Olbermann's show, thus expanding the consciousness of the average American TV viewer and raising awareness by 19%.

# When Obama speaks about universal healthcare, the risk of cardiovascular diseases decreases by 58 percent, and the risk of cancer decreases by 60 percent.

# Obama knows that his healthcare plan is going to work because he personally tested it in a leper colony, where he healed everyone by shaking hands and kissing babies.

# In Portland, Oregon, Obama fed a multitude of 75 thousand with five government subsidy forms and two rolls of red tape.

Cynical conservative elitist perrier swilling gas grilling dog loving hubris hating liberal here. ;)

What's with all these labels anyhow?

Democracy is a motherhood issue with the snipers of this world. I think it was Churchill who said "democracy is a horrible system for choosing governments—but it's the best we have" (or words to that effect).

I agree with this—sort of.

My point in this discussion was simply that there are many places on this earth today where the preconditions for a meaningful democracy do not exist. Hopefully those preconditions will exist one day — but they don't today.

When the snipers of this world try to export democracy to such countries at the point of a gun—well intentioned though they may be—they are bound to do more harm than good. Some countries, with their present boundaries, can only be maintained through a strongman. Weaken the central government and introduce democracy and slaughter and mayhem will result. Then your only choices are either to balkanize the place into tribal fiefdoms, or reintroduce another strongman. For such countries the best you could wish them is a benign dictator. Not democracy.

I have argued here before that Iraq is one such country. The former Yugoslavia was another. Ditto for many third world countries.

As these countries develop they often develop hybrid systems. Take the "guided democracies" in which you have elections but no real choice.(Singapore for example).

Or "democracies" such as Thailand where order is only maintained by a strong military and royal family.

I repeat my question to sniper: What possible purpose is there in asking someone to vote who has zero idea what this means or who the candidates are or what they represent?