Blown coolant line.....Another reason to HATE @#$%$# Audis

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I did not know you bought one also.


Tundra is rock solid even with the high mileage. I only got between 12-14 mpg driving 70-80 mph on our 1200 mile trip recently, but I was loaded and pulling a trailer.

I've had my 2000 Tundra for 4 years or so. She has 250k miles+ on her and a salvage title to boot

Almost all of my driving is local so I don't get the highway benefit much.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

Hey Javadog, make you a great deal on a "fine" Audi with recent service. 7K and she is all your's. Cash only and once it leaves my driveway, you are on your own.

Tim,

Had a 2000 S4 and loved every minute of it. Replaced it with an RS6, which I still own. Can't say that losing 200 hp appeals to me much.

Also have a couple of daily driver Audis (A8L and S8) so that need is covered, too.

Also have a winter beater (V8Q) so I think I'm fine for now.

I do have a couple of BMWs I'd sell, if you need one. One's an E30 M3 and the other is an E30 325is. Both are priced well above the market, for a good reason.

Also have a mint early Audi turbo quattro coupe, if you want to try some old technology.

JR

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by javadog

Tim,

Had a 2000 S4 and loved every minute of it. Replaced it with an RS6, which I still own. Can't say that losing 200 hp appeals to me much.

Also have a couple of daily driver Audis (A8L and S8) so that need is covered, too.

Also have a winter beater (V8Q) so I think I'm fine for now.

I do have a couple of BMWs I'd sell, if you need one. One's an E30 M3 and the other is an E30 325is. Both are priced well above the market, for a good reason.

Also have a mint early Audi turbo quattro coupe, if you want to try some old technology.

JR

Sounds like you are an Audi enthusiast and thus I can understand why you might not like hearing me run down Audi. I like airplanes and Porsches for my hobbies. Both of which probably are not financially the best ways to dispose of my hard earned money, but hey, they float my boat.

While I like my fussing with my toys, the Audi in my case was purchased as simply a daily driver for my wife and I stupidly assumed that it would not require much more effort to keep on the road than my wife's prior DD (E36 BMW)..... I was mistaken.

Obviously the most logical solution would be to buy a Honda and be done with it, but my wife and I both like the feel of German cars and I pretty much think I will stick with them. Maybe I got lucky, but my E36 BMW truly has been the best car I have ever bought. No matter what you say, I POSITIVELY know for sure that the E46 BMW I will replace the Audi with will be MUCH simpler to fix than the Audi if it ever has problems.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

Sounds like you are an Audi enthusiast and thus I can understand why you might not like hearing me run down Audi.... No matter what you say, I POSITIVELY know for sure that the E46 BMW I will replace the Audi with will be MUCH simpler to fix than the Audi if it ever has problems.

Sure, I'm an Audi enthusiast. Also a BMW enthusiast, a Porsche nut, etc. etc.

My whole argument is this: I hate it when people run down a car brand based upon a sample of 1, purchased used. Or, in Jim's case, many of his issues were related to the dealer, not the car. His experience would have been much different, had the dealer been worth a crap.

For the record, my experience has been gained with the ownership of 11 Audis and 9 BMWs, dating back to the early-mid '80's. My experience has been that the BMWs have had more problems overall, in number. Many of them have been what you guys would consider basic design/quality issues, in that the problems were common to every example of a particular model I owned, and they repeated, as the replacement parts were no better than the originals. That's why I say in the BMW community, a plastic radiator is considered a routine maintenance item, as they will fail sooner or later. Ask an E30 M3 owner about intake leaks, or oil leaks, or warped front brake rotors...you get the idea.

I'm plugged into the enthusiast BMW world (BMWCCA, E30 M3 SIG, etc.) and there is no shortage of whining there.

As for the maintenance issue, a friend of mine is the head technician at the local BMW dealer. He might have a different opinion about the ease of repairs to a BMW. Granted, access is easier in most engine bays but he has his share of frustrations. Work on an 850i sometime, or try an electrical problem on a modern 7-series. He once spent 2 whole days working on a sunroof for me and swore he'd never do another one. And this guy's good, very very good.

I hope you have better luck with your next car,
JR

[javadog]

Oh, by the way, I'll bet that if the oil leaks had been fixed on a timely basis, you wouldn't have popped that hose.

On the other hand, I replace hoses and belts on a regular basis, whether I need to or not. I like to pick when and where things get done. By the side of the road has never been my first choice...

JR

[the]

Originally Posted by javadog

My whole argument is this: I hate it when people run down a car brand based upon a sample of 1, purchased used.

Sample of 1? So it's only Tim's A6 where you have to remove the whole front end to replace a leaking coolant hose?

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by the

Sample of 1? So it's only Tim's A6 where you have to remove the whole front end to replace a leaking coolant hose?

My brother in law has an A4 that came off warranty this year and he takes it to the dealer for all work. $3500 so far for a car well under 100k miles (eg: the power steering pump replacement... over agrand as the "whole front" had to come off.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by the

Sample of 1? So it's only Tim's A6 where you have to remove the whole front end to replace a leaking coolant hose?

You missed my point. I've owned 11 Audis to date and not had a problem yet with a leaking coolant hose.

Tim's hose went south because it was oil soaked, from a leak that went unfixed. Last I looked, Audi hadn't yet cornered the market on oil leaks. I'd also argue that I would have already replaced that hose, at the mileage that he had on the car when it failed. I don't have anything laying around with that mileage and original hoses.

The other issue is that Audi crams a lot of stuff into a small space IN THAT PARTICULAR MODEL. Well, that happens to be one of their most complicated engines. He could have bought an Audi that was much simpler, where he wouldn't have had to go to that much trouble to fix it. Compare it to equally complicated cars. I've owned several where it's easier to pull the whole motor out of the car, than fix something in place.

We all make choices. If you want easy maintenance, don't pick a car that has every bell and whistle in the business.

Make sense?
JR

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by javadog

Oh, by the way, I'll bet that if the oil leaks had been fixed on a timely basis, you wouldn't have popped that hose.

On the other hand, I replace hoses and belts on a regular basis, whether I need to or not. I like to pick when and where things get done. By the side of the road has never been my first choice...

JR

I agree that the oil leak probably caused the problem, but without tearing the whole front end off, I would have never been able to see how much it had been leaking. Oh and if you are claiming you change "all" coolant hoses on all your Audis on a "regular" basis you are exagerating because the engine would have to come out to get to some of them.... Upper and lower radiator hoses maybe.... all coolant hoses.... no way.

I did however change the belts, rollers and water pump as preventative maintenance just as I do on my water-cooled P-cars. I can assure you, that I have plenty of experience with all sorts of DIY repairs on cars and all the cars in my sig are in very good shape and maintained properly. IOW, I don't appreciate what I percieve as you insinuating that I am a hack mechanic ( in case that is what you were doing).

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by javadog

The other issue is that Audi crams a lot of stuff into a small space IN THAT PARTICULAR MODEL. Well, that happens to be one of their most complicated engines. He could have bought an Audi that was much simpler, where he wouldn't have had to go to that much trouble to fix it. Compare it to equally complicated cars. I've owned several where it's easier to pull the whole motor out of the car, than fix something in place.

We all make choices. If you want easy maintenance, don't pick a car that has every bell and whistle in the business.

Make sense?
JR

You make a good point about the twin turbo compared to less complex models, but the whole front still has to come off of most newer Audis and can I still complain about the upper front control arm bolts (need to drop the strut to get the bolt out), and how difficult it is to replace a front CV boot on any Quattro model. I could go on, but time to go get in the Audi and hope it gets me home from work.

[javadog]

Tim,

I never said you were a hack mechanic. Obviously, you are not. YOu bought that car with a lot of miles on it and those problems were there when you got the car. My point was only if the oil leaks had been dealt with on a timely basis, you'd probably not been stranded.

As for the coolant hoses, yes they all get replaced, as it really doesn't matter which one pops, any of them will let the water out. Most of the time, these things get done during a major service, while other things are on the agenda.

I'll give you an example. The last major service on my Ferrari 328 consisted of:

Valve adjustment
Cam belts, rollers, water pump, etc.
ALL hoses
All ancillary belts
Evaporator foam replacement (inside the case)
All suspension bushings
Brake rotors and pads
Steering rack
Clutch, flywheel, etc.
LSD plates
4 Tires
All fluids, filters
4 Shocks
Other misc. crap.

The work was done by a dealer, the bill was huge, but the car has NO issues. I could hop in it tomorrow and head to California, without a concern in the world.

My kids will have no inheritance but I have a good time.

JR

[Jims5543]

JR - I have had 2 Audi's now and its more than dealer related it "the car sucks" related. I have delt with 2 different dealerships during the ownership and both were on par with each other, the techs are in over their heads and cannot figure out the cars.

I have never seen so many electrical problems in a car in my life, how do you go to a dealership with a problem that comes and goes? You don't, because the chances of it happening to them is nil and you get to drive a crappy loaner car in the process and nothing get accomplished so you just live with it as you pay $600 a month to deal with it on your 55K car.

The first car had a bad radiator, so much for Audi's not having radiator issues.

2 cars sucked, 2 of them, how many more did I need to buy before I could have a valid opinion?

The first one cost me 25K used with 40K miles on it the second 55K new, I just bought an 11K BMW with 77K miles on it and I EXPECT some issues. The nice part is I can fix most all of them myself. A window regulator went on my way home from picking it up. I laughed because I already knew it was an issue. 15 minutes and $80 later it was fixed. I am ordering the other side next week and replacing it before it goes.

Here is the kicker Tim is selling his 2001 A6 Quattro 2.7T for 7K and he might or might not sell at that price because unlike you most of the rest of the world is weary of used Audi's. A 2001 5 Series would be a comparable, a 530i goes in the 11K range right now.

I am glad your an enthusiast, I was too before I actually owned a couple of them

[javadog]

Jim,

Once upon a time, I was a car dealer. I spent most of my time making sure the service side of the business went well, as I had someone else running the sales force better than I could (my future wife.) Anyway, we made sure we fixed the cars, period. Sometimes we had to get the manufacturer involved but we never wrote on a ticket that "we couldn't duplicate the problem" and send the customer home with the same problem they brought it in to fix. We also looked at the car pretty thoroughly to identify any needed service or repairs as we realized that the average car owner doesn't pay much attention to those things. I personally test drove every car that came through the shop, to make sure things were right. We also detailed each car when it was done, years before anybody else even washed them.

I realize that most dealers don't do all of these things. There are still a few good ones out there and the bad ones aren't limited to Audi. I make a point of getting to know everybody in the food chain at the dealerships where I take my cars and I get good service as a result. Some of these people have worked on my cars for 20 years or more.

I remember some of the threads you posted over the years (and made some of these same arguments in them...) and I recall that some of the issues you had were a "bad dealer" issue.

If it makes you feel any better, I have sold off most of my Mercedes, as I have found them to be pretty unreliable, extremely expensive to fix and the local dealer is going downhill. The good guys are almost all gone, although there is one guy (who has been moved to the Porsche side of the business) that would still do about anything he could for me. He's a nice guy.

JR

[TWork]

Between me or someone in my family, we have owned 3 VW since '98. I have friends who own or have owned various VWs & Audis (A6, S4, etc). They are generally more fun to drive than your average Honda/Toyota. If I take the 10 or so cars I know, they seem to make an inordinate number of trips to the shop. I've seen or dealt with everything from window regulator failures, to coolant leaks, to ball joint issues, to engine sludge issues. Some of it has to do with the increasing complexity of cars, but much of it seems to just be poor build quality/design of VW/Audis specifically. When you approach a marque with passion and enthusiasm, these types of issues are easier to swallow. But, I don't think Tim's experience is atypical.

Originally Posted by the

Sample of 1? So it's only Tim's A6 where you have to remove the whole front end to replace a leaking coolant hose?

[dzls rok]

i know some of you hate vw/audi's because all of the problems you've had, and thats too bad. i've had 1/2 a dozen vw's and have had no major problems. just a voice from the other end of the spectrum.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by dzls rok

i know some of you hate vw/audi's because all of the problems you've had, and thats too bad. i've had 1/2 a dozen vw's and have had no major problems. just a voice from the other end of the spectrum.

dzls rok,

I have owned 4 VW's and my parents owned several also, I always liked them and still do, however I know several folks who still own them, but have had many more problems than they likely would be having driving Hondas. I even recently bought my daughter a '00 New Beetle to drive to college in, but guess what car I am fixing this weekend since the Audi back on the road?

First order of business this morning is to fire up the milling machine to make a special tool to remove the spark plug wires so I can replace the sparkplugs to see if the miss goes away

Other than my Toyota trucks, I am kind of a German car lover and when the wife said buy the daughter a newer car to commute to school in, I looked into the Beetles. They do have many small problems, but the 2.0 gas versions, unlike the Audi's, are fairly easy to work on due to the relatively uncluttered engine compartment. Well even with lots of apparent room under the hood, I soon found that the same douche bag who designed the newer Audis, apparently is the guy who designed the engine mount that must be removed to get at the waterpump and timing belt . At 100k miles, the car runs nice, but it has a bad oil leak that needs to be addressed in the vicinity of the valve cover and the upper strut mounts are toast and now it is missing. I am not throwing in the towel on this car and intend to keep this car, but the build quality is not up to Honda/Toyota quality IMO.

As stated before I like the way the cars look and drive, I just don't think the quality/reliability/servicability is up to par with other brands in similar classes of import cars.

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

dzls rok,

I have owned 4 VW's and my parents owned several also, I always liked them and still do, however I know several folks who still own them, but have had many more problems than they likely would be having driving Hondas. I even recently bought my daughter a '00 New Beetle to drive to college in, but guess what car I am fixing this weekend since the Audi back on the road?

First order of business this morning is to fire up the milling machine to make a special tool to remove the spark plug wires so I can replace the sparkplugs to see if the miss goes away

Other than my Toyota trucks, I am kind of a German car lover and when the wife said buy the daughter a newer car to commute to school in, I looked into the Beetles. They do have many small problems, but the 2.0 gas versions, unlike the Audi's, are fairly easy to work on due to the relatively uncluttered engine compartment. Well even with lots of apparent room under the hood, I soon found that the same douche bag who designed the newer Audis, apparently is the guy who designed the engine mount that must be removed to get at the waterpump and timing belt . At 100k miles, the car runs nice, but it has a bad oil leak that needs to be addressed in the vicinity of the valve cover and the upper strut mounts are toast and now it is missing. I am not throwing in the towel on this car and intend to keep this car, but the build quality is not up to Honda/Toyota quality IMO.

As stated before I like the way the cars look and drive, I just don't think the quality/reliability/servicability is up to par with other brands in similar classes of import cars.

I am not a big "Ford" guy but I bought my 16 year old daughter a 2000 Mustang w 19K on it over 5 years ago. She is in college in SF the car has 70K on it and no major issues, oil changes , brakes and a battery, Thats it! The car is maintained well and you cannot believe how much room there is in the engine bay. If it does break in SF anyone at Pep Boys can fix it. Perfect teenager car and yes its a v6

[Bob Goding]

Curt, why doesn't your Audi have black taillights? All the later coupes and quattros Ive seen have the black lenses and reflector as per these pics of a car for sale near my home . I owned a 2.2 coupe a few years back ,'84 I think and it had all red across the back. I now have a 94 avant with 2.6 V6,but its only 12 valve ,not 30 valve like Tims. Unfortunately the front doesnt come off like the later cars ,nice to drive though--cost me $500[NZ dollars!]

[QUOTE=CurtEgerer;4113961]Yup, they're all junk .... wanna race?

[Britwrench]

Quote from javadog on his Ferrari 328 repair:

"The work was done by a dealer, the bill was huge, but the car has NO issues. I could hop in it tomorrow and head to California, without a concern in the world"

As the 328 is appreciating, which any Audi certainly is not, and the repair bill could have probably paid for three A6 models (of your choice) then comparisons are not relevant.
It would be better to compare the 5-series BMW or E-class MB.

Much as I like the Audi A4 (97-04, V6 quattro, not the 4 cylinder) or A8 (99-02 model, preferably the S8) the ongoing costs once the warranty has expired is eye-opening sometimes.

I drive around in a 1985 Audi 4000CS, 4 cylinder, front wheel drive 210,000 miles, which costs virtually nothing to run. Have noticed that parts are become NLA for certain things.
Yes, I would like an early Quattro coupe or the one of the 100/200 range, after those stopped production , the rest are use to 100,000 and dispose of.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Having written a book on those cars, I can atest to the fact that they are pretty well-built. There are some quirky things about them, all mentioned in my book, but in general, they are very well-built and quite reliable. BUT, you might want to take a look at the 5-Series. As much as I love the 3-Series cars, the 5-Series is a huge step up from the 3-Series. It has the same sportiness and reliability, combined with much better trim, fit, and finish in a much better package. Truly, I think the E39 5-Series is the best car I've ever seen (even Consumer Reports agreed when they awarded it the 2003 car-of-the-year pick, over Lexus, Honda, Toyota, etc.).

Check out the 5-Series, I don't think you will be disappointed. Stay away from the first or second years of the newer series - they had a bunch of electrical gremlins. For a really super car, pick up a 2003 M5.

-Wayne

I have actually been looking at E39's also, but most are automatics which I would like to avoid. Many also have pretty boring looking wheels. IOW it appears easier right now to find a stick E46 with a sport package (bigger wheels and slightly lowered stance). I know I can always buy wheels for a 5 series and with a high mileage car the upgrading the suspension may be necessary anyway, but it would be more cost effective to buy a sporty looking E46. I have time to look fortunately.