USA to pull out of NATO?

[p911dad]

Considering that the NATO members are not supporting US recommendations to sanction Russia for the Georgian invasion, what do the board members think about the USA pulling out of NATO and leaving the Europeans to face the Russians as a European force? Hmmm?

[jwhcars]

I think it is time for us to clean our own house and to get our own country in order.

[BeyGon]

Originally Posted by jwhcars

I think it is time for us to clean our own house and to get our own country in order.

So do you mean yes, get us out of the UN?

I think we should get out now.

[Rick Lee]

We ain't getting out of NATO, so any discussion of such is pure mental masturbation. Even if we did get out, we'd still run to Europe's defense if they faced a real threat. Face it - we're the world police and we'll step up when no one else is willing to do what needs to be done.

[aap1966]

U.N. is a waste, so leaving the UN is no loss.

As for letting the Europeans look after themselves, the USA ended up rescuing Europe in WWI and WWII and the US's presence in Europe provided the security that prevented WWIII.
Pulling out of NATO would be very satisfying, but would just mean a bigger mess for the Anglosphere (US plus Britain, Australia, Canada) to sort out next time.

So, not a good idea in the long run.

[RPKESQ]

[QUOTE=aap1966;4129196]

As for letting the Europeans look after themselves, the USA ended up rescuing Europe in WWI and WWII

QUOTE]

Please stop repeating this old wifes tale about how the US saved Europe in WW I. There are no military or political evidence to support this view. It simply isn't true.

In WW II in the European theater, Russia inflicted 4 out of 5 German casualties. And right up to the end of the war in Europe the Germans used the Western Front (American and British front) to rest and refit their troops. Lend Lease was vitally important to England but much less so to Russia. This does not dismiss the efforts and bravery of all of the Western Allies (American, English, Free French, Polish, etc) who fought and sacificed for freedom, but dismissing the Russians effort and skill in defeating the Germans is just a historical whitewash.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I agree. While some would call moves like that "isolationist", I think a good dose of isolationism is absolutely needed right now including (but not limited to):

1. securing our borders
2. rounding up/kicking out illegals
3. levying huge tariffs against foreign goods (particularly asian/Chinese crap)
4. pulling most (if not all) our troops based abroad home
5. discouraging investment in foreign markets and rewarding investment in domestic companies with tax incentives.
6. paying down our national debt.
7. (perhaps most important) - CUTTING GOVERNMENT SPENDING
8. taking lots of dollars out of circulation

[jwhcars]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I agree. While some would call moves like that "isolationist", I think a good dose of isolationism is absolutely needed right now including (but not limited to):

1. securing our borders
2. rounding up/kicking out illegals
3. levying huge tariffs against foreign goods (particularly asian/Chinese crap)
4. pulling most (if not all) our troops based abroad home
5. discouraging investment in foreign markets and rewarding investment in domestic companies with tax incentives.
6. paying down our national debt.
7. (perhaps most important) - CUTTING GOVERNMENT SPENDING
8. taking lots of dollars out of circulation

I agree 100% with the above .

[einreb]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

We ain't getting out of NATO, so any discussion of such is pure mental masturbation. Even if we did get out, we'd still run to Europe's defense if they faced a real threat. Face it - we're the world police and we'll step up when no one else is willing to do what needs to be done.

Too much money to be made. Wanna join NATO? You need to buy our stuff to be integrated into the 'system'.

Its all about money. Industrial Military Complex much?

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

In WW II in the European theater, Russia inflicted 4 out of 5 German casualties. And right up to the end of the war in Europe the Germans used the Western Front (American and British front) to rest and refit their troops.

Damn! We should have stayed home and let the Russians liberate France!

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Damn! We should have stayed home and let the Russians liberate France!

We could have. We did stay home for years in WW II (1939 to effectively 1942).

The French suffered and died right along side the Americans helping to liberate France. The point is, The Russians made it a HELL of a lot easier for us. And painting the entire European Theater as "America saving Europe" again is an insult to the rest of the Allies who fought and suffered too.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Damn! We should have stayed home and let the Russians liberate France!

Lord knows the former east bloc countries were so happy the Russkies liberated them before we did.

[Super_Dave_D]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

We could have. We did stay home for years in WW II (1939 to effectively 1942).

The French suffered and died right along side the Americans helping to liberate France. The point is, The Russians made it a HELL of a lot easier for us. And painting the entire European Theater as "America saving Europe" again is an insult to the rest of the Allies who fought and suffered too.

I disagree............

Where were the Russians from 39 to mid 41???? In a pact with Germany so they could take Poland!

The Finns kicked Russia's butt. Russia was probably the least talented military in WWII man for man. They simply had so many men that were of no value as human beings to their government that the Stalin just threw them at real armies in hopes that the real armies would get tired of killing them or run out of ammo to kill any more. If you read Bidermanns “In Deadly Combat”, he writes how the commissars kept sending people into his pak gun and supporting MG 42 that they were piling up and he became so sick of killing Russian after Russian wondering how their officers could keep sending them until they ran out of men to get killed.

No way Russia could have defeated Germany without the US and England's involvement and assistance.

[aap1966]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Please stop repeating this old wifes tale about how the US saved Europe in WW I..... It simply isn't true.

In WW II in the European theater, Russia inflicted 4 out of 5 German casualties. And right up to the end of the war in Europe the Germans used the Western Front (American and British front) to rest and refit their troops............ dismissing the Russians effort and skill in defeating the Germans is just a historical whitewash.

I did not dismiss the Russian contribution. In fact, without the Yanks I have no doubt Russia would have "liberated" France, just as they "liberated" East Germany, Poland, Lithuania, etc.
Your assertion that the Western front was a "rest and refit" area for the German military is one I have not previously encountered. Perhaps you would also assert that the inhabitants of Dresden regarded February 13, 14, 15th 1945 as little more than one long airshow?

P.S. You do realise the moon landings weren't faked don't you?

[tabs]

RPKQ..Is busy harping again to ignorant Americans who think they won WW2 singlehandedly, with just a tiny bit of Brit help.

PBBBBT...RPKQ..just keep on talkin to the great ignorant Americans. However don't try to run your Commie Lovin rhetoric on me. I know way better.

Without the USA the commie ba$+ard$ would not have won....

Alabert Speer (Nazi Armaments minister 42-45) when asked how the Allies won the war said the US and Brit Strategic Bombing of Germany won the war....."What could 20,000 (sic 88 MM Flak) guns have done on the Eastern Front."

END OF STORY...nothing to see here...

[Zef]

Originally Posted by gmeteer

Considering that the NATO members are not supporting US recommendations to sanction Russia for the Georgian invasion, what do the board members think about the USA pulling out of NATO and leaving the Europeans to face the Russians as a European force? Hmmm?

And...what's wrong with this...!!!

[svandamme]

freedom fries my @ss...how about Afghanistan??
It was after all a war started to take care of the Evil Doers that attacked your country.
Where Dubbya made bold statements of catching them, not resting till it's done

except he forgot the Ritaline, had a flairup of ADD, and buggered your armed forces by sending them to Iraq instead
And the French are dying there for a war you guys started... so i guess you might as well pull out of Nato... and then NATO can pull out of your wars?

unless YOU fought in the Western theater of WW2, you are NOT the one who has any I owe U's to collect... If you did, then good for you... you can talk like that, you did earn that right...

but i seriously doubt any of you fit's the description

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I agree. While some would call moves like that "isolationist", I think a good dose of isolationism is absolutely needed right now including (but not limited to):

1. securing our borders
2. rounding up/kicking out illegals
3. levying huge tariffs against foreign goods (particularly asian/Chinese crap)
4. pulling most (if not all) our troops based abroad home
5. discouraging investment in foreign markets and rewarding investment in domestic companies with tax incentives.
6. paying down our national debt.
7. (perhaps most important) - CUTTING GOVERNMENT SPENDING
8. taking lots of dollars out of circulation

You have my vote!

[Tobra]

No

Frenchy, I have a big radio tower in Paris I will sell you for cheap, some Aiphull guy designed it, had something to do with the Statue of Liberty too. I can get you a good price on that if you are interested

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Lord knows the former east bloc countries were so happy the Russkies liberated them before we did.

I never stated or implied the Russians were the good guys. So your statement is way off base. Get a grip, try using your brain instead of the emotional drivel to discuss this subject.