Getting nostalgic about the old formula and Indy cars I was around.
 

Early on they still had a frame. Then the big deal was AL monocoque. I wonder what today's mechanics will think of the formula car of 2025. Personally, I don't really appreciate the current crop. I wouldn't know what to do with a car that WILL NOT drive or perform unless it is within 98% of it's potential.

Even today's race motorcycles are that way.

So, someday I make a ton of money and decide to buy a 2008 F1 car. I won't be able to drive it, that's a fact. OK, so I buy a 1990 car. That I could get in some laps.

FF to somewhere beyond 2025 and a contemporary car becomes available. For what? To give to a 16 YO that has been racing since before he/she could walk?

I think nostalgia is in danger.

I know what you mean. As much as I like watching the new stuff (it IS way faster) I remember the old stuff with fondness. It was accessible technology. You could use what you learned, in a day of gazing at the track, on whatever was in your garage. Especially with motorcycles.

I remember when you could watch a race from just about anywhere. No passes, no nasty security guards, just a little common sense. Now only the beautiful people have access. I just watched the MotoGP race last month at Laguna Seca (excuse me, I meant Mazda Raceway...) and while I sat in the cheap seats, Tom Cruise and Katie Whatshername watched the race from the pit wall. I don't remember seeing those tickets for sale.

The way I seee it, we'll be lucky to even have racing in 2025. Either the f'ing econerds will get it outlawed or the infighting in the business will kill it off. I have yet to watch an Indy race, since the IRL/Cart squabble and it looks like AMA road racing will get turned off next year.

If you ever truly run out of work, I have a list of people in the racing world that have outlived their usefulness to society.

JR

I'm working on that one....:confused:

Thats an interesting thread you started. Does each generation wonder about nostalgia being in danger when they reach a certain age (guessing you are about the same age as me - 60). I think I will ask this question of some of my friends from my parents generation.

Things move so fast now that young people might not have time for nostalgia. The techno advances and "things to do" curve is moving toward vertical at an ever increasing rate - or it seems so to me.

Maybe there is some hope though. I am in the 356 Registry and on their new forum someone did a poll on age of owners. I was very surprised to learn that the majority were born during the years of production (1949 to 1965) and a large number were born after production ended (after 1965) I would have bet against the pol results.

Assume you mean the current crop of cars and I agree. They are not "built" anymore.
I really can't imagine what they will look like in 20 years.

IMO, aside from the driver, the F1 deal now is all about designers and much less about the mechanics and engineers. Use to be a couple of engineers on the teams and now its a staff of them. The mechanics / fabricators built the car but I think now they are manufactured so to speak. Its just different - a lot different now.

For the first time in a long time something in F1 has gotten my interest - regenerative braking and the use of the energy stored as a result of it.

My Dad started taking me to Riverside from 1963-1970 I saw Grand National (nascar) F-5000, Can Am, Trans Am. I was very young 5 Years old- 12 Years old. I wish I had some photos. I do have lots of memories of Gurney kicking ass in those stock cars. I remember AJ rolling the #00 stock car. Petty, Pearson, Parnelli ect ect.

The F-5000 cars were just insane. I remember a F-5000 race ,I was maybe 7 years old I remember it was Sam Posey in this accident but, coming out of T-6 a car spun and was stalled in the middle of the track, Posey T boned Him and the cars exploded in flames. Posey was able to get out of his car and help the other driver get out, I only know this because I met Sam maybe 15 years ago and he remembered the accident and we chatted about it, he said he was having alot of brake trouble that weekend (simtac Brakes ??). He said the corner workers tried to stop him from helping the other driver, Posey had a fire suit on and the corners did'nt. He did help the other guy out. He was burned badly and never raced again, don't know his name.

I never saw the aftermath, The accident happened right in front of us and my dad grabbed me and took me to another location. I remember a very nasty black cloud of smoke.
Can Am cars are a very faint memory. I do remember the Jim Hall Cars, very distinctive.
Trans Am Cars we watched a lot, Folmer, Parnelli, Donahue, Gurney, That was very exciting racing.
It was a different time, We would throw the motor scooters in the back of the truck and go anywhere and everywhere all access. Even after the race we would sneak into the garage area. My cousin and I would peel the stickers off the cars and put the them on our jackets.:D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219381505.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219381521.jpg

I hear ya re: the cars - but not sure what you mean about the bikes. Today's race bikes are pretty awsome and the technology seems to trickle down directly to what you can buy in a store.

Today's sport bikes are barely street legal in my opinion. Its scarry what a 16 year old can go buy with very little money.

Aesthetically, I do prefer the look of the bikes in the 70's, 80's and even 90's but - todays bikes are still pretty damn cool and definately pleasing enough to keep me interested

cars? not so much. Just pop on the DVD "le Mans" and see how beautiful and unique the cars used to be. Being 36, thats all I can do if I want to see great race cars

I actually prefer the cars from the '60s to what's pictured here...I just like the "slogan":
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219416509.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219416586.jpg
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Minkoff - the book was mailed today
(sorry bout being off -subject)

you guys want to see some awsome vintage cars.. over at ferrarichat.com there is a wonderful thread with 200 or more pages of vintage ferrari race car photos in the vintage section. you have to login to see em, but its worth it. stunning old photos and alot of close-ups

thread is here
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89883

Reading "The Unfair Advantage" was a real eye-opener as to how simple the technology and race car prep was back in the old days.

I lived in Speedway, IN within walking distance of the track when I was a kid. Heck, drivers used to stay in apartments or with friends during the month of May (I met Gordon Johncock when he stayed in the apartment next to ours and met another driver named Larry McCoy when he stayed with a friend). I even have pictures of Janet Guthrie. Whole different world back then. Ahhh...the old days.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219417243.jpg
Speaking of Indy:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219417322.jpg

A 2008 race bike won't handle well at slow speeds. It has to be driven hard and fast to get the tires to temp and the motor humming. Just like the cars. You wouldn't want either even as a hobby. Older cars are more "user friendly." Some were beasts, but you and I could work on them and understand them. We could not even start one of today's F1 cars without all the periphery and personnel.

The Porsche 550 Spyder was driven to the track in many cases and driven home. So were a lot of SCCA cars. But, that wasn't my point originally.

Obviously much much newer and "advanced", but still beautiful and lethal:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219417531.jpg

I still think those John Barnard era Ferrari's are some of the most beautiful F1 cars ever, even almost 20 years on. Especially in contrast with the current IRL Dallaras, which may be the most aggressively ugly formula cars ever built.

http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?criteria=O%3AAD%3AE%3A10708&pag e_number=1&template_id=1&sort_order=1








Tim

My father who was a spectator at the 1967 Monaco GP that claimed Lorezno Bandini's life, said that the "early" F1 cars always had this look about them that you could climb in and drive away. Obviously an over simplification, but it was said in the context that if he were sitting in a "new" F1 car, if he figured out how to start it, and actually move it, he'd probably be unable to stop it.

Hey now, to an extent the same could be said about my 24 year old 911; no power below 4000 rpm and it drives like crap at low speeds.

I think everything is Colin Chapman's fault. Ugly wings and sponsor logos all over the cars. :(

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219424727.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219424739.jpg What a sad day it was when Jim Clark perished.:(

I see what yer saying Milt.

i do think the gap between race and street bike is much smaller than the gap between race car and street car. isnt it?

i think bikes are just about at their max preformance limit now. i dont follow MotoGP that closely but from what ive seen, i dont think the riders or the tracks could accomodate much more performance. they are already brutal machines

& seriously, some of these new 1000cc sport bikes you can buy for $10K are approaching the top speed of a motoGP race bike top speed which i believe is 215.864 mph. Hell, my bike is at least 12 year old technology and it will do 170mph bone stock no problemo

Race Cars on the other hand are waaay ahead of street cars. Some of these formula 1 cars now days look like space ships to me, like something from a Star Wars movie

I prefer the older cars as well - just seems like each one had character, which the cookie-cutter cars of today don't have. Did some digging in my 40 year old slides, pardon the quality:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219432342.jpg
Niki Lauda at The Glen

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219432409.jpg
Chapparal at Bridgehampton - this taken with an Instamatic


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219432497.jpg
Jo Siffert Can Am Porsche at The Glen

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219433968.jpg
Ferrari at Bridgehampton

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219434005.jpg
James Hunt at the Glen

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219434042.jpg
Stewart Matra at Mosport

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219434114.jpg
McLaren, Andretti's Ford, Chapparal

Are you sure that's not a Lola T70? :D

No question, that's an early coupe. One of my favorite cars...

JR

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219436148.jpg

While I'm at it I think that's a March 701

The geeky thing is that I love these cars even though they are probably a little before my time (only just mind). I remember my Father used to take me to the Daily Express Trophy race at Silverstone in the mid-70's. This was a race for the Grand prix cars and drivers but it was not part of the championship. I still have a few of the programs that I have kept. It's funny looking through the driver lists for the support races and seeing all the names of the soon-to-be F1 stars. I used to love going to stuff like that and all the Historic meets to watch the old cars race.

I could probably name every one of the Grand Prix cars from that era. I recognise Hunt's Hesketh in the photo above and Lauda's BRM. I have probably seen these run at some point, either that or spent hours as a kid pouring over Scalextric catalogues. I still do now come to think of it...

You're right on the Lola - the team name got me confused.

Right again on the March. My memory is fading after all this time; I was doing photography for fun, not historical documentation. Thanks for the corrections. I think I will just post without specifics :).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219437441.jpg


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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219437556.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219437590.jpg

And now a little later, and a different series

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219437805.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219437825.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219437849.jpg

And a 911 about to overtake two backmarkers! I THINK that would be Hurley Haywood in the Brumos #58

Sorry - please don't let me put you off. Personally I am loving your photos.
I can name the cars but you have to tell us where the pictures were taken!

I think that those are...

Yardley McLaren M19A
Ferrari 312T3
John Player Special Lotus72 (Has to be my favorite car and color combination for a 70's Grand Prix car)
STP March 711 with the 'Surf Board' front wing

How do you come to have such an extensive collection of Grand Prix car photos? Were you a regular at the Glen?
My Father made me a wooden wagon that ended up with lots of stickers on it. I particularly remember the Yardley and John Player Special stickers!


You'll be pleased to know I'm pretty much clueless on Can-Am!

Its an M19C and a 312T1 isn't it. That'll teach me...

Still, those are great photos from the time when you could actually get close enough to the track to get decent photos!

I specifically remember being able to walk across the track at Silverstone after the racing was done as I 'found' all the little chunks of rubber that had come off the tires and picked some up to take home!

Well, if you want us to get nit-picky, that's a 321T. No need for the 1, as they hadn't yet built the 321T2. :D

If you want to get up to speed on the Can-Am cars, might I suggest a couple of DVDs?

Can-Am, The Speed Odyssey
Can-Am Thunder

Both of these little gems arrived in my mailbox today, newly made, from the fine folks at The Motorsport Collector.

JR

Your corrections are not putting me off at all, I appreciate having the factual info. I saw most of the major races at the Glen in the mid-late 60s, into the 70s, I think - there's that memory thing again. Last ones for today:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219439266.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219439286.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219439304.jpg

I'm pretty sure that's Mark Donohue, although I recall that his first sponsor in F1 was First National City. I could be wrong.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219439324.jpg

Pit helper at Mosport. It wasn't all old cars!

Love the pics! Some of the cars are ugly, some are poetry in motion. I think by reading your various posts that there would be solid support for more historic races than there are presently being run. I think the IRL and the Grand Am could do well to put some of these on the menu.

But then, I don't have access to the mafketing numbers. I do know for a fact that the Long Beach Gran Prix as it is sold to the public today is a far cry from how the founder, Chris Pook, saw things. He saw a street race, an F1 race at that! Today it's promoted as a party. I think the current day patrons would yawn during a historic race. However, I digress once again.

I'm just missing the older, simpler cars. Might be time for me to find a project. I could probably afford an old C Sports Racer. Hey, vintage karting is growing by leaps and bounds. I should get an old kart.

I might just start looking.

My '81 Margay on my garage wall might be coming up on eligibility pretty soon.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219442208.jpg

Man, that thing was a lot of work to drive. I better calm down here. :D

I mean I haven't been in a kart (that one) since 1994. What am I thinking?

Yeah, thats Mark, in an F5000 I think...

Great shots, guys! Thanks for sharing.

Milt,

I'm not sure, but I think the 'nostalgia' thing alters our reality. We look back at the early 70s race cars and say to ourselves, "Look how simple they were. You could build and maintain one for a hobby."

If you had gotten a sneak peek at one of those cars as it was being rolled out for its maiden laps, I think your reaction would have been quite different.

True, when you are looking at 'leading edge' technology, that edge gets sharper as the focus narrows so, as you say, they become more and more useless for anything else.

Could you have drived Andretti's 72 Lotus around and gotten a few thrills? Yes, you can, with deep pockets and some help. Can you drive a modern day F1 Ferarri (complete with high-tech engine design that needs to be pre-warmed) for your thrills? Yes, if you have really deep pockets.

Twenty years from now, We'll probably look back on L. Hamilton's car just as appreciatively

Les

I worked on an F5000 team for one season. Those cars were trucks compared to newer cars. I'm not sure they even had fuel cells. However, one can fix that easily. I still like that era and many more. The 5000's were at a time when wings were just being deployed (sorry ;)).