Boeing machinists strike.

lendaddy · 06:29 AM

Brilliant union leadership, their timing is just stellar

Say goodbye to some more US jobs. Can someone tell these idiots that you make hay while the sun is shining?

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0529451820080906?sp=true

MBAtarga · 09-06-2008, 06:58 AM

I wish I was offered an 11% raise over 3 years!

"Boeing's "best and final" contract offer this time around was delivered to union members a week ago, proposing an 11 percent wage increase over the three-year life of the contract, a one-time lump sum and ratification bonus, and other incentives that the company said would add about $34,000 to the pay of the average machinist, who now makes about $65,000 a year including overtime."

rouxroux · 09-06-2008, 07:10 AM

Hello Airbus!

lendaddy · 09-06-2008, 07:13 AM

It's the raw stupidity that kills me. Even if they win they lose, they picked a fight that made no sense.

Absolutely zero forethought. Hell, even the deal they got Boeing to offer is an arrow in their own backs. Boeing is now working twice as hard on their off -shoring plans, that we can be sure of.

Stupid

sammyg2 · 09-06-2008, 08:32 AM

Typical union mentality, they want to make $100 an hour for a job that should be worth $25 even if that puts them out of work.

HardDrive · 09-06-2008, 09:11 AM

I can understand folks trying to get more money, but the anger being expressed by the union members is laughable. There was a guy interviewed on local radio yesterday. I'm paraphrasing, but he said, "As it stands now, our kids are stuck going to in-state colleges if they want their tuition paid for, and thats unfair!"

LOL! Yeah, thats rough buddy. Its really only a fair contract if there is a 'We'll pay for all your children to go to college anywhere on earth regardless of cost' clause.

DavidB911 · 09-06-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I can understand folks trying to get more money, but the anger being expressed by the union members is laughable. There was a guy interviewed on local radio yesterday. I'm paraphrasing, but he said, "As it stands now, our kids are stuck going to in-state colleges if they want their tuition paid for, and thats unfair!"

LOL! Yeah, thats rough buddy. Its really only a fair contract if there is a 'We'll pay for all your children to go to college anywhere on earth regardless of cost' clause.

Ya know us commoners have to pay our own way no matter where we go, so why should they be any different. These unions have really forced companies to go over seas. Its frustrating when the guy on the floor making the part is making about the same wage or more than the guy that designed the darn thing. Shoot I want an engineering union so I can make 3 times what I should.

Tim Hancock · 09-06-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I can understand folks trying to get more money, but the anger being expressed by the union members is laughable. There was a guy interviewed on local radio yesterday. I'm paraphrasing, but he said, "As it stands now, our kids are stuck going to in-state colleges if they want their tuition paid for, and thats unfair!"

LOL! Yeah, thats rough buddy. Its really only a fair contract if there is a 'We'll pay for all your children to go to college anywhere on earth regardless of cost' clause.

Un-effing believable.

Just wait... Supe will be here soon to tell us all how bad these guys have it.

Screw the unions and their overpaid ungrateful workers!

Tim Hancock · 09-06-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidB911

Ya know us commoners have to pay our own way no matter where we go, so why should they be any different. These unions have really forced companies to go over seas. Its frustrating when the guy on the floor making the part is making about the same wage or more than the guy that designed the darn thing. Shoot I want an engineering union so I can make 3 times what I should.

+100000000000

These POS union whiners really need to STFU as most make more than me who as an engineer designs the machines they are paid to push the start button of.

I HAVE ZERO PITY FOR ANY UNION EMPLOYEE WHO EVER LOSES HIS OR HER JOB. A bunch of god d@mn whiners who feel they are entitled to a care free life at the expense of the company they work for.

Yeah... I have a problem with unions

Rant over!!

KNS · 09-06-2008, 09:52 AM

When I read a while back that Cessna would be building their new light singles overseas (I think it was China) I was pissed. When I found out later it was because of the high price of labor here - like what Boeing is going through - it's understandable. Still sad, I want an American made Cessna, Boenig, etc.

HardDrive · 09-06-2008, 10:51 AM

I want to know what the average wage is for Boeing machinists.

Hads930 · 09-06-2008, 08:11 PM

Would like to know what percentage of total wage increase goes to the union management. The floor workers ought to ask what the union administration is making for doing nothing, I would venture to guess that if they want to talk about disrespect they would find that they are probably being disrespected by their own union far more than they are by Boeing............

Scuba Steve · 09-06-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I want to know what the average wage is for Boeing machinists.

It was in a couple of the papers - about $27/hour. It used to be a little higher but a lot of the long-timers have been retiring and the new people aren't as far up the pay scale so it brings the average down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hads930

Would like to know what percentage of total wage increase goes to the union management. The floor workers ought to ask what the union administration is making for doing nothing, I would venture to guess that if they want to talk about disrespect they would find that they are probably being disrespected by their own union far more than they are by Boeing............

They pay a lot in dues... close to $60/month I believe. So they're basically paying $1,000/year out of their before-tax income to be in the union (1.5% of their overall pay?). Throw in loss of income any time there's a strike and I'm not so sure that's a very good deal.

But anyway, it was really quiet around Everett today, and traffic in the area was light.

HardDrive · 09-06-2008, 10:11 PM

I feel bad posting anything against unions. My grandfather was a union steward in the UAW. I think saying 'unions are worthless!' is not on target. But it seems like the past 40 years have show clearly that union leadership is (like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) REALLY in the business of keeping themselves employed. Not the workers, the leaders. Union leaders are in fact in management jobs, and if it all goes t!ts up, they could careless.

I want people to make a decent wage in this country, but it is not realistic to ignore the HUGE disparity in wages between workers in the US and other countrys, especially for things like machined parts.

In Supermans defense, there are many instances where tapping experienced union labor is the only logical choice. You not going to build a 50 story building with a bunch of undocumented workers with unknown skills.

But a stainless steel widget made in China is the same as a stainless steel widget made in Everett, WA. Yes, you need to have checks in place to make sure that they are in fact the same. But if the quality is there, are business leaders supposed to ignore the potential cost savings?

I don't feel good about typing any of this, but it seems to ring true.

island911 · 09-06-2008, 10:36 PM

Spot on HD.

Just last week I sent out drawings for a few stainless steel widgets. One RFQ to a shop in Everett, WA. one to a vendor in CA (for China). Well, the parts are to be here on Thur (from China) ...a few hundred buck. I never even got a response from the local shop ...but at least I can know it would have been much more expensive.

Zef · Zef's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by KNS

When I read a while back that Cessna would be building their new light singles overseas (I think it was China) I was pissed. When I found out later it was because of the high price of labor here - like what Boeing is going through - it's understandable. Still sad, I want an American made Cessna, Boenig, etc.

I'm not very willing to fly an aircraft made in China...!

billybek · billybek's Garage

Hey, engineers are too expensive too....
Lots of engineering being done off shore these days.
Damn engineers, 4 years of education and they think they are immortal..
Thank god they don't have a union!

IROC · IROC's Garage

Boeing workers went on strike at the Boeing-Oak Ridge facility a few years ago and Boeing fixed their little red wagon - they closed the facility. Some of the workers found positions at other facilities - the rest were on the street. You have to ask those striking workers: "How did that work out for you?".

Boeing (or any other large manufacturer) can not afford an unreliable work force.

Dave Nordhoff · 09-07-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybek

Hey, engineers are too expensive too....
Lots of engineering being done off shore these days.
Damn engineers, 4 years of education and they think they are immortal..
Thank god they don't have a union!

We do have a union. SPEEA. There are a few "immortals" but most of us are
just regular working guys and gals.

Dave

t951 · t951's Garage

I would prefer to pay a bit more for a product that WASN'T union made.

Unions exist to continue the existence of Unions.

A union employee rarely has to do a good job. They know that they are going to be kept, shuffled around, whatever.

If, Ford, for example, offered an F150 that was union made, and one that wasn't, I would choose the Union free model. Why, because I would wager that it was built better, had fewer defects, and would last longer.

I would wager that as the cost savings of union free products started to permeate the market, that more people would buy them, and in turn we would save more American jobs.