Neighbor's Prius needs $4k battery replacement

[Chuck Moreland]

150k miles, needs a new battery pack. $4k dealer quote. Warranty on the battery is 100k.

They are not pleased.

If his is a common problem, that hidden cost erases the hybrid economy.

It occurs to me that it is not uncommon for a car to need a new engine by 150k miles, so the battery could be viewed in the same light. But not really, because the prius also has an engine. Their's has 150k miles on it and it too might be close to needing a rebuild or replacement.

Then there is the electric motor. Ditto to it being worn out.

The extra complexity of the hybrid does drive increased repair costs, probably more than offsetting the fuel savings.

Maybe the state of battery technology today just isn't there yet for hibrids.

[Rick Lee]

As far as I understand them, they are not only a false economy, but they also pollute the environment more than gas cars due to what it takes to produce the batteries. They just make people feel good. The real benefit is that you can use them in the carpool lanes in a lot of places. But I can do that with my bike, which cost less to buy, gets better mileage, costs far less to repair/maintain and is more fun.

[daepp]

I have also heard that they have to go to third world countries for the production of their batteries.

And from personal experience, every one I know who has had a hybrid got rid of it/traded it in before the four year overall warranty expired.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by daepp

And from personal experience, every one I know who has had a hybrid got rid of it/traded it in before the four year overall warranty expired.

That right there makes it a false economy, probably even if bought for cash or 0% financing. I really wonder how many hybrid owners/shoppers figure the difference in annual fuel costs between a new hybrid and their current paid-for or nearly paid-for gasoline car and then add in depreciation. I'm sure it works out for a few people, but not nearly all the ones who fall into the guilty mindset.

[the]

They are experiments and likely fruitful steps towards the future.

Current hybrid technology, like the Prius, with their 1,000 lbs of old school batteries, certainly aren't the final answer. But you have to start somewhere.

[Normy]

Heh!

A Jetta TDI of the same year would have had similar consumption....but wouldn't need that $4k battery.....

I tell all my non-mechanically minded friends to avoid the Prius and the Honda hybrids; they will only put you in a hole when the batteries expire! I saw this one coming YEARS ago!

N!

[dd74]

Our friends with hybrids feel good about them until they ride in our diesel.

We know three Prius owners who will unload their cars for diesels as soon as they are allowed to be sold new in California.

[island911]

Originally Posted by the

They are experiments and likely fruitful steps towards the future.

Current hybrid technology, like the Prius, with their 1,000 lbs of old school batteries, certainly aren't the final answer. But you have to start somewhere.

This is not new technology, nor is it rocket surgery. Gas/electrics in various forms have been around a long while. The problem is economic . .. the systems simply cost more. Some applications offset that cost by gaining a needed feature... a diesel electric train, for example, gains by having the ability to to have massive torque at zero rpm (a needed feature for a train)

I'll mention again, I was on the design team for a hybrid-electric SAE competition car back in college.(I was into the idea back then) All the technology was old back then too.


Chucks post is spot on.

[Jim Bremner]

I want a Prius with a small block CHEVY!!!

[Hugh R]

I have a family connection and I bought an 08 Camry Hybrid loaded out the door for $26.6K. I'll probably do better than most since I got about a $5K discount. 36 mpg from Newhall to Burbank and back average. For those of you in Rio Linda, its some bumper to bumper 22 miles each way with about a 500 ft drop in elevation on the way in. This compares to a regular camry with gets about 10 mpg less on similar driving. For me with the family discount this may be an OK deal, for others, maybe not.

[speeder]

A counterpoint:

-Why on earth would someone buy the replacement batteries from the dealer?? They are like giant cell-phone batteries, right? Ni-mh or something? There are no aftermarket sources for them? If I need a new or extra battery for my Blackberry, I can either buy it from the dealer, (Sprint), for ~$100.00 or on eBay for $12.00. That's brand new/OEM and yes, it's working just fine. That's the battery industry in a nutshell, no different from buying coolant or motor oil from the dealer or aftermarket.

-150k on a set of batteries is not bad. If this was a 150k Suburban that needed a transmission and the dealer quoted $4k, all of the anti-Prius crowd would still think it was a fine vehicle.

-The Prius is the current state of the art for production hybrids and is driving the advancement of the technology. (With their sales numbers). I've lost count of how many people I know that have them in CA., everyone to a person loves the car, from gear-heads to car-haters. I would rather have a VW TDI if they were better cars, but the quality just isn't there. It is on the Prius. I've yet to see even the anecdotal "Prius is a POS/lemon/electronics nightmare story. You cannot swing a dead cat on the internet w/o hitting a POS Audi/VW/MB/etc. story.

I don't have a Prius, but I'd love one for a city car. The carpool lane thing is an after-thought, I'm never on crowded freeways, plus the stickers are gone for new cars. And it gets a lot better mileage than a BMW MC, Rick. As much as 20 mpg better in a roomy car w/ A/C on. I've heard true stories of ~60 mpg and better, so dream on. I love bikes and want a Ducati, but if I'm expecting Prius fuel economy from it I am dreaming.

I love it that they are trendy in CA. Sometimes I see 5 of them stopped at one light or an entire line of them parked somewhere. It's like VW bugs in the '60s. Each and every one of them means one less stupid SUV on the road, (last decade's trendy vehicle), cleaner air and less demand for oil + more room in parking lots. How can this be a bad thing? SUVs were a f**king environmental disaster as trendy cars. One little turd w/ a cell phone and a pack of Parliments in a 6k lb. vehicle? Talk about mass-stupidity. Oh yeah, you can tow your boat w/ it for 3 days a year.

I realize that I'm on a pro-Prius rant here, but I always get irritated by the people who don't like them because of the (perceived) people who drive them. I know plenty of apolitical types who own them, they're just great cars. If it was ONLY the clean air aspect of them, they would be fantastic. The car that started this thread can get new batteries and go another 150k miles, with ever-increasing ROI as fuel prices rise and car payments disappear.

[Jim Richards]

On a conventional car,

1) is an engine rebuild likely after 150k miles?

2) what does an engine rebuild cost?

3) is a 100k mile warranty good?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Denis, at this time I doubt there are aftermarket batteries available for the hybrid. Your Blackberry is one of hundreds of thousands, if not millions on the market. That's a lot bigger potential market for a battery maker. As the Prius ages, it might make business sense unless they are particularly expensive to produce.

Chuck, I'm suprised your neighbor is having to foot the bill. This is happening more and more as the older Prius (Priui?) grow in miles. But every case I've heard of has been covered under "good faith" by Toyota.

Personally, I don't see how it's that big of a deal. A large repair on a 150k car isn't rare, unless it's Japanese. Definitely not the high standards expected of Toyota. I think hybrids are cool from a tech standpoint, but you can't deny that they are far more complicated than an ordinary car. Their MPG is great, but once you consider the mark-up, it's hard to make the ROI work out. Especially considering that a $15k Civic or Mazda3 can get 35 MPG highway.

My biggest dislike is the "image" associated with the car, and the fact that many people buy simply for that reason. Self-rightous people annoy me. I'm a much bigger fan of the subtle hybrids, like Hugh's Camry. As Denis said, anything that gets people out of their monster SUVs is a plus. I think the technology will continue to evolve, but at the core it's a gap-filler until true alternative fuels come online.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by the

They are experiments and likely fruitful steps towards the future.

Current hybrid technology, like the Prius, with their 1,000 lbs of old school batteries, certainly aren't the final answer. But you have to start somewhere.

Bailey Electric 1908-1916, S. R. Bailey & Co Amesbury MA.

Samuel Robinson Bailey and Colonel E W M Bailey. Bailey was a carriage builder (and hatmaker) who perfected steam wood-bending machinery for carriage wheels (and hats) around 1870. The bodies featured bent laminated wood. Col. Bailey was known for touring the cars. They were chain driven with a GE motor and the Edison battery.

One of these cars is still driven today in Labor Day, 4th of July parades etc. At this point in time they should not be experiments. Island is correct... it's ecomonics. To bad there haven't been any discussions on this board about oil, economics, and greedy capitalism. To bad Thomas Edison wasn't as powerfull as Henry Ford and his group.

[IROC]

I read recently (and maybe this had changed) that Toyota was replacing Prius batteries free of charge. No cost to the consumer.

"And Toyota claims that not one has required a battery replacement due to malfunction or "wearing out." The only replacement batteries sold--at the retail price of $3000--have been for cars that were involved in accidents. Toyota further claims that the nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) battery packs used in all Prius models are expected to last the life of the car with very little to no degradation in power capability."

From: http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm

[berettafan]

been saying this was gonna happen since these stupid things hit the scene.

talk to RC toy people; they know batteries, even the most advanced, are fickle things.

[red-beard]

Sounds like he needs a Li-ion upgrade!

[cashflyer]

The hidden costs should not be a consideration when you're working toward the greater goal of saving the planet.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

The hidden costs should not be a consideration when you're working toward the greater goal of saving the planet.

IMO it has not been convincingly demonstrated that battery powered cars will do anything to save the planet.

[Mo_Gearhead]

Perhaps he shoulda typed that in Green text?

I HOPE half the planet buys these electric cars (and keep their tires inflated!) so there will be more oil/gasoline available for my vehicles/boat!

Just keep the POS in the right lane and out of my way!