Gibson vs Fender...

[targa911S]

I thought the Les was a "neck through" like my T-Bird. The neck runs from headstock to tail peg. On the bird the sides are glued on the sides of the neck. The bass is really just a neck with wings glued on it. The neck itself is a 9 layer laminate. Of course mine is an original Bird, the new ones are set necks and crap. As a bassist I can't enter into the discussion on guitars. I like the sound of both guitars. However, ask me how many crappo Fender basses I have owned and sold.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by craigster59

I've always felt "it's not the arrow, it's the indian" when it comes to what you can get tonewise from a guitar and some of that is achieved with external "magic".

You are spot on. If Jimmy Page came round to my house and picked up a LP, he would osund exactly like Jimmy Page. If I was stupid enough to drop 25k on a Jimmy Page Gibson Custom Shop Historic Reissue Heritage NOS Closet Classic Masterbuilt personally signed Les Paul- guess what, I still wouldnt sound like Jimmy Page.

[Rick Lee]

Stu, that's gorgeous. How can I take photos like that? Here are a few of mine. Again, photos don't begin to show how beautiful these are up close.

[Les Paul]

Check my tag name. I have many many many guitars. This is a tired old saying but I'm going to use it anyway. Eric Clapton has played probably thousands of guitars in his life. The thing is no matter what he picks up he is still going to sound like Eric Clatpton.

If I had it to do all over again I would buy a
Gibson Les Paul Standard.
Gibson 335.
Gibson SG
Fender American Strat
Fender American Tele
Rickenbacker 12 string

[targa911S]

"As well as being Gibsons first long scale bass, it had their first fully-adjustable bass bridge, and was the first Gibson bass to utilize neck-through construction. This idea had first been used on an electric bass six years earlier by Rickenbacker (the 4000 bass), and consisted of one central piece of wood spanning the entire lenth of the instrument, and 'wings' glued to the sides to make the body. This contrasted the seperate neck and body approach of most guitar makers who normally glued (Gibson) or bolted (Fender) the neck to the body.

The central wood was raised slightly and accomodated tuners, pickups, bridge and the tailpiece. Having the entire length of the strings vibrating on one peice of wood increases sustain, and has added strength for long necks. It is a technique still widely used today on higher end guitars and basses; most notably Rickenbacker and B.C. Rich (and many more besides). The mahogany wings were glued on using a V-shaped notch and groove arrangement."

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Im the opposite. I find American guitars to be inconsistent in quality and generally over priced.

i completely agree, except however, when it comes to Rickenbacker who makes and sells nothing less than 100 percent perfection

american strats and teles do seem to be pretty consistent these days though. gibson however...i had to play a dozen before i found one that didnt have some finish problems and electrical gremlins

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Les Paul

Check my tag name. I have many many many guitars. This is a tired old saying but I'm going to use it anyway. Eric Clapton has played probably thousands of guitars in his life. The thing is no matter what he picks up he is still going to sound like Eric Clatpton.

If I had it to do all over again I would buy a
Gibson Les Paul Standard.
Gibson 335.
Gibson SG
Fender American Strat
Fender American Tele
Rickenbacker 12 string

...although he has never sounded quite the same since the beano record..after that LP got stolen...

however, i agree with the indian/arrow analogy. absolutely true ...although some guitars have that mojo that pulls something out of your that others dont

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by stuartj

You are spot on. If Jimmy Page came round to my house and picked up a LP, he would osund exactly like Jimmy Page. If I was stupid enough to drop 25k on a Jimmy Page Gibson Custom Shop Historic Reissue Heritage NOS Closet Classic Masterbuilt personally signed Les Paul- guess what, I still wouldnt sound like Jimmy Page.

this is confirmed by the fact that he first recorded and performed with his telecaster before the LP.

[targa911S]

Guys those are all beautiful guitars! Fender guys...are you seeing the price diff here?

By the way I have been to the factory in Nville and got the tour. The Les Pauls are veneers also. Seen it myself. Now the 335 is another story and I believe they make those in Bosman where they make the acoustics. I saw no 335's in Nashville. Just solid bodies.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Guys those are all beautiful guitars! Fender guys...are you seeing the price diff here?

By the way I have been to the factory in Nville and got the tour. The Les Pauls are veneers also. Seen it myself. Now the 335 is another story and I believe they make those in Bosman where they make the acoustics. I saw no 335's in Nashville. Just solid bodies.

Think you may be confusing maple cap over mahogony body- the construction of LPS - with veneer. A veneer is 1-2mm veneer of flame or quilt maple laid over the cap. Or worse, artifcial "fotoflame"

[MOMO3.2]

Rick:

Look at a typical Gibson Les Paul or 335 hollow body. They have a set neck, pearl inlay headstock, pearl inlays on the fretboard, and binding on the neck and body. Then, look at a typical Strat or Tele. They have a removable neck, a Fender decal on the headstock, no binding, and small clay dot inlays. Clearly, part of the difference is labor and materials cost. The wood used on Fenders is in no way inferior to Gibson.

Gibsons are certainly not "better" than Fenders or vise versa. If Stevie Ray Vaughn was handed a $5,000 Les Paul instead of the god awful looking Strat he played, he would not have sounded "better"-different, not better.

If you want tone similar to SRV, you pretty much need a Strat. If you want tone like Brad Paisley, you pretty much need a tele and Dr Z amp. If you want to sound similar to Slash, get an LP copy and a Marshall tube amp.

I personally have come to appreciate single coil guitars. I absolutely LOVE Fender Stratocasters and Telecasters. If you are interested in a Strat or Tele, my strong advice would be to research the mid 80's Made in Japan Fenders and more current Crafted in Japan Fenders. They are absolutely amazing instruments that (IMO) are superior to anything Fender makes short of a Custom Shop instrument. I own a couple fine examples and will never buy Fender American again.

If you want a Les Paul, check out Orville by Gibson, Tokai Love Rock, or Greco. These are all Japanese "copies" from the 80's. They are superb guitars that are remarkably true to the original, highly coveted Gibsons of the 50's, & 60's. The secret is out so they are not cheap. They are, however more affordable than a new Gibson and will only continue to appreciate in value. Check them out on ebay. If you are interested, PM me and I can give you specific details on what to look for.

Good luck.

Mike

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by srandallf

this is confirmed by the fact that he first recorded and performed with his telecaster before the LP.

And after the LP. the Stairway break for instance, is a Tele.

[MOMO3.2]

OK, a few pics:





Tone Heaven Club Royale

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by MOMO3.2

Rick:



If you want a Les Paul, check out Orville by Gibson, Tokai Love Rock, or Greco. These are all Japanese "copies" from the 80's. They are superb guitars that are remarkably true to the original, highly coveted Gibsons of the 50's, & 60's. The secret is out so they are not cheap. They are, however more affordable than a new Gibson and will only continue to appreciate in value. Check them out on ebay. If you are interested, PM me and I can give you specific details on what to look for.

Good luck.

Mike

Agree with everythning you say- JAPAN guitars rule, as far as Im concerned, electric and accoustic (check out K.Yairi, or sold as Alverez Yairi in the US) Ive got some JAP strats that are just great.

But one correction to your post- Orville and Orville by Gibson were Gibson businesses. The OBGs are not copies.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Stu, that's gorgeous. How can I take photos like that? Here are a few of mine. Again, photos don't begin to show how beautiful these are up close.

Beats me Rick, I cant take pics like that either.
Nice guiatrs, love to get a 335 one day.

[MOMO3.2]

Stuart:

Thanks.

I did group the LP's together as copies. Of course Orville "by Gibson" is a Gibson product made in Japan at the respected FujiGen Gakki or Terada factories.

Mike

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Guys those are all beautiful guitars! Fender guys...are you seeing the price diff here?

Sort of, but not really. when it comes to non-vintage, solid body Gibsons...the reason for the price difference is not so obvious to me.

Especially when it comes to the SG which is a thin slice of mahagony with no binding on the body, no flame top, no paint, except laquer, no fancy inlays... so it has a bound neck...whoopydoo. im not knocking it, i love mine...probably my favorite guitar i own, or at least the one i grab the most often

i think that Gibsons are priced where they should be. Fender is giving us all a deal. To me, the question is, why are strats and teles not priced higher?

Of all my guitars, the guitar that is the most playable, most expressive and has the best and most range of tones, is my plain o'l american standard strat that i think was $800

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Think you may be confusing maple cap over mahogony body- the construction of LPS - with veneer. A veneer is 1-2mm veneer of flame or quilt maple laid over the cap. Or worse, artifcial "fotoflame"

Yes OK I would agree with that. The caps I saw there were thicker than that.

[Superman]

Gibson ($3K) versus Fender ($1.5K)? Simple. It's based on weight.

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by Superman

Gibson ($3K) versus Fender ($1.5K)? Simple. It's based on weight.

LOL! If that's the case, my T-Bird is worth about $5K! The thing is like wearing a bar stool by the end of the night!