Privitize Profit, Socialize Risk

[widebody911]

We need to stabilize the financial system in the here and now, because we are seeing breakdowns at an accelerating rate - the spiral is accelerating.

Aside from the brown stains in some CEOs' $5000 designer boxers, what breakdowns are occurring? The urgency is similar to that which shrouded the Iraq war and the Patriot Act. It seems that all those crying for urgency also have some skin in the game.

I see this 'bailout' as analogous to me overpaying for a POS car, driving it with no oil in the sump, then having my rich uncle take over the payments so I can go out and get a new loan to buy another POS car.

[jcommin]

If the gorvernment wants to bail out companies, I think they should call the ALL the shots;

That includes compensation, having input in the risk and reward. Consider this a Coporate takeover, new rules are set. I don't why some are now upset over regulations; the lack of regulaltions got us into this in the first place; check that - it was greed. The trickle down theory doesn't work for me. Every game needs rules. You have got a 'free for all if you don't'.

Time for a new venue. You can't expect different results with the same mindset; that's insanity.

[dtw]

No urgency??

When there's a run on money markets to the tune of $133B in two days, how long can the market survive? Make no mistake, the Treasury averted a serious meltdown on Friday by backing money market funds. The hemorrhaging slowed to $5B on Friday.

If you pull over $3 trillion out of money markets, where does the money go, such that the economy doesn't fail?

Same idea with the deteriorating balance sheets of the major banks as well as FNMA and FHLMC. Banking regulations are all about liquidity - if your assets start evaporating in value due to panic, your liquidity, your ability to conduct day to day business, goes with it. If you don't have a certain level of liquidity, your access to short term funds is closed. Action is required immediatley - you can't put it out to committee - that ship sailed months ago.

[Superman]

Hey, I've got an idea. This being a democracy and all. Let's loan these greedy rich folks something like $150B and place the rest on the ballot in November.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Oh noes, a meltdown.

Who cares? I have enough ammo to keep me in deer and antelope meat until 2064.

[TyFenn]

**DISCLAIMER** I have not read every post in this thread.


However, that being said, if they DON'T pay these executives this kind of money they will simply go to private equity houses where NO ONE can say anything about what they get paid. Big deal right? Well, what will happen is a steady exodus of the best talent moving away from public companies and ultimately it will be more expensive to have some idiot running the company. I'm telling you, from here on out, no one will want to run a public company. Why put up with all of this BS when you can go start a hedge fund or join a venture capital firm where you can still earn great sums of money.

Simply put, the best are going to leave because they don't need this BS from johnny public.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by TyFenn

**DISCLAIMER** I have not read every post in this thread.


However, that being said, if they DON'T pay these executives this kind of money they will simply go to private equity houses where NO ONE can say anything about what they get paid. Big deal right? Well, what will happen is a steady exodus of the best talent moving away from public companies and ultimately it will be more expensive to have some idiot running the company. I'm telling you, from here on out, no one will want to run a public company. Why put up with all of this BS when you can go start a hedge fund or join a venture capital firm where you can still earn great sums of money.

Simply put, the best are going to leave because they don't need this BS from johnny public.

With this kind of "talent" (running $700B red) I certainly hope they leave...

I'm worried about loss of talent in R&D, not money-grubbing fund yahoos with multi $B compensation deals.

[Superman]

My sense is that a million guys in America have every bit as much talent as those guys. I think the difference is how big their balls are. Some people sleep just fine at night regardless of what they did that day.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by nostatic

With this kind of "talent" (running $700B red) I certainly hope they leave...

I'm worried about loss of talent in R&D, not money-grubbing fund yahoos with multi $B compensation deals.

+1. Sorry, it's not personal. It's just business.

[hardflex]

I've hardened on this too. I heard on Marketplace that the deathly fear the Senators were hearing was that people would not be able to finance new cars... BFD. Makes used ones more valuable and Service of Maintaining those used cars uses American Labor.

[stuartj]

What are the consquences of not conducting the bailout?

[Jim Richards]

Less money to lobby Congress?

[hardflex]

Just watched the President's address.

The Fat Lady has sung for him.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by stuartj

What are the consquences of not conducting the bailout?

It would certainly be a good lesson and an act of tough love. But any of us here trying to sell our houses would find it almost impossible and that can't be good for values. And since the values would further sink, counties would have to find other ways to raise taxes, and we all know they'll do that before they cut spending.

[stuartj]

And what the bigger pciture? The US is a nett debtor. It finances consumption spending with overseas debt. If this bailout does not occur, and overseas lenders on which the US relies turn off the credit tap, what then?

This is not just about bailing out over priced Wall St screen jockeys. The US central bank is acting to stabilise the entire US financial house of cards. Whether or not the bailout is the right thing to do is debatable, but the ramifications are greater than the outrage being expressed over bailing out millionaire investment bankers.

However, there is a great irony in the fact the institutions are being socialed in the home of the free market. GM and Ford will be next.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by widebody911

In 2007, Wall Street’s five biggest firms — Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, and Morgan Stanley — paid a record $39 billion in bonuses to themselves.

That’s $10 billion more than the $29 billion loan taxpayers are making to J.P. Morgan to save Bear Stearns.

Those 2007 bonuses were paid even though the shareholders in those firms last year collectively lost about $74 billion in stock declines — their worst year since 2002.

And people think it is wrong to tax the Rich.

[widgeon13]

Those *********s should be required to pay some of that back to begin with, taxing is after the fact!

It's nothing more than legalized grand larceny.

I'll think I'll pass on paying any income tax this year.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by hardflex

I've hardened on this too. I heard on Marketplace that the deathly fear the Senators were hearing was that people would not be able to finance new cars... BFD. Makes used ones more valuable and Service of Maintaining those used cars uses American Labor.

EXACTLY! You see Congress worries more about GM and Ford than it does about Joe Lunchpail. Yes, I know that GM and Ford are employers. Stop being confused. You know what GM and Ford would do with a pile of cash? They'd automate. Congress thinks it would be better for people to buy new cars than to service and repair their existing ones. I think the opposite.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Superman

EXACTLY! You see Congress worries more about GM and Ford than it does about Joe Lunchpail. Yes, I know that GM and Ford are employers. Stop being confused. You know what GM and Ford would do with a pile of cash? They'd automate. Congress thinks it would be better for people to buy new cars than to service and repair their existing ones. I think the opposite.

Speaking of which, GM & Ford got a nice $25B low-interest federal loan package while everyone else was distracted. http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/24/news/economy/house_bill.ap/index.htm

After hard lobbying, automakers won up to $25 billion in low-interest loans to help them develop technologies and retool factories to meet new standards for cleaner, more fuel efficient cars.

[Jim Richards]

Now they can build more SUV's