Good cop, bad cop

[ramonesfreak]

definitely way out of line, no matter what the personal problem between the two is. way way out of line and should turn in his gun and badge

[9dreizig]

Dueller, can you press a formal compaint ?? At least put it in his file ?? Get that POS off the street!

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Dueller, can you press a formal compaint ?? At least put it in his file ?? Get that POS off the street!

Certainly. As an officer of the court I'm almost duty/ethically bound.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Clearly from a narrow perspective I could use the complaint procedure to taint the trial and show his bias as a witness. As an advocate for my client I have certain duties to him. The prosecutor doesn't want to throw his officer under the bus. OTOH if he can be rehabilitated you don't want to destroy a person's career. But he is not fit to serve if he's harboring this type of hostility. And my client's safety as well as my own may be at risk if I destroy him professionally.

[9dreizig]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Certainly. As an officer of the court I'm almost duty/ethically bound.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Clearly I could use the complaint procedure to taint the trial and show his bias as a witness. As an advocate for my client I have certain duties to him. The prosecutor doesn't want to throw his officer under the bus. OTOH if he can be rehabilitated you don't want to destroy a person's career. But he is not fit to serve if he's harboring this type of hostility. And my client's safety as well as my own may be at risk if I destroy him professionally.

I respectively disagree, this lunatic picked the wrong career.. He's not fit to be a greeter at Wal Mart. Who knows how often he's done what he did to your client,, the only reason he's not pressing the phony charges is he got caught,, what's next ? Planting a gun on the body of someone he just shot?? There's no rehab for his type.. Thank god for in car cameras....

[Tobra]

wow

[RWebb]

both officer B and your client need help & rehabilitation

think that solves the ethics issue...

[DonDavis]

sub'd

Gotta see how this plays out. Really surprised he confirmed his threat. That's just dumb on his part.

[Tishabet]

If your client fired you today and you were no longer obligated professionally to do anything for him, I'd still say you're obligated as a good citizen to press a complaint against officer B.

[304065]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Certainly. As an officer of the court I'm almost duty/ethically bound.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Clearly from a narrow perspective I could use the complaint procedure to taint the trial and show his bias as a witness. As an advocate for my client I have certain duties to him. The prosecutor doesn't want to throw his officer under the bus. OTOH if he can be rehabilitated you don't want to destroy a person's career. But he is not fit to serve if he's harboring this type of hostility. And my client's safety as well as my own may be at risk if I destroy him professionally.

How would you get the complaint in?

Counselor, in making your decision as to how to proceed, you should not consider the consequences to Officer B. He may be retrained, he may be disciplined, he may file a greivance and have the whole thing swept under the rug.

Do you really think that if you were to ignore the situation it would result in Officer B feeling any better toward the Client?

[ramonesfreak]

i still think the client is telling half the story. what did client do (possibly) to make officer B behave in this manner, both prior to this day and on this day?

is officer B just an arrogant lunatic or does he too, feel for his personal safety for some reason?

regardless, his threat should be reported in a formal manner, but i would not do so without discussing the possible consequences to the client and attorney's safety

history has shown that people who lose their jobs and are willing to use guns and are "unstable", often kill boatloads of people....including those they perceive as being responsible for the loss of the job

this sounds like a very bad situation. damned if you do (danger to client and attorney), damned if you dont (malpractice, client's rights jeopardized, danger to public at large).

[Icemaster]

I can see where you might get caught in the spokes, but you wouldn't be destroying his career, he did that all on his own with his statements.

This is a guy who carries a gun and a badge - he should have neither. He's a disgrace to all the ones who handle themselves professionally in an unprofessional world. He needs to be removed from that line of work, he's a ticking time bomb.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by srandallf

i still think the client is telling half the story. what did client do (possibly) to make officer B behave in this manner, both prior to this day and on this day?

Who cares?

Officer B has an intimate knowledge of the system and should have no issue resolving the issue without threats of killing the client.

Put another way whatever client did does not excuse Officer B's behavior especially while serving in an official capacity.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Who cares?

Officer B has an intimate knowledge of the system and should have no issue resolving the issue without threats of killing the client.

Put another way whatever client did does not excuse Officer B's behavior especially while serving in an official capacity.

you misunderstood me because i was vague.

i think knowing the full "story" between these two, could help one to understand the full extent of the danger that officer B poses to all involved, including the public thereby making the decision of what to do about it, easier and safer

i agree, there is NO excuse for the officers poor behavior, specifically, threatening a person with death when indeed, he should know the system and the ramifications of making such a threat

but giving the officer the benefit of the doubt --- that he has otherwise been a good person, no past record of poor behavior, that the system would have weeded him out if he was a nutjob, that he may have had some valid reasons for his prior complaints against client --- his response makes me think..."hmmmm, i wonder what really happened between these two that would make this officer snap and possibly jeopardize his career or worse....." ?

if i was gonna use his statements to my client's possible advantage, i would want to attempt to understand the motivation behind the cops behavior before i took action and risked possible death upon myself and others

its not like client is facing a life sentence here

im not at all defending this pile of crap cop, im just being cautious in light of the fact that the guy could be "postal"

[Dueller]

For those of you who feel I don't know the whole story, you are partially correct. What I do know is that apparently at some point in the past my client was seeing/dating/hooking up with a woman that officer B was interested in. This would have been when they were in high school. Details are very sketchy.

I also suspect my client wants to be a cop or a full time firefighter and may be jealous of Officer B.

I have been successful in having a number of Officer B's cases thrown out of court because he frequently jumps to conclusions and often lacks probable casue for many of his stops. He tends to play fast and loose with the facts in his reports that are often disproven with videos. Interestingly, for one reason or another many of the videos from his car are not available or the camera was malfunctioning or a clipboard was "inadvertently" in front of it. So I may in fact be part of the problem he has with my client.

On the charges filed by Officer B against my client last year for impersonating a PO, my key witness was a decorated 15 year sheriff's deputy who totally rejected Officer' B's testimony and corroborated the testimony of two other witnesses. Did I mention the deputy was riding in the front seat of the car with my client when he was allegedly impersonating a PO?

Numerous LEO's from the sheriff's office and a neighboring town have contatced me about how much of a loose cannon this officer is....most do not like him.

oN the charges most recently I agree my client was speeding and did not stop when the blue lights were thrown by officer A. I offered a guilty plea on those charges. But it was a bit unusual because I suspect Officer B radioed ahead to OIfficer A to initiate the stop. Officer B was on the scene before my client came to a stop. Radio transmissions recordings in the minutes before the stop have mysteriously disappeared.

Nevertheless, B's statements were out of line and frightening.

I have a meeting scheduled for Monday a.m. with the chief.

[Dueller]

On another note, I have some plausible evidence that Officer B is juiced on 'roids. Picture I have of him 6-9 months ago show him as average size. He's now really bulked up and has a thickened brow. This may explain some of his agressive behavior.x

[Moses]

If I were your client and a local officer starts flashing the blue lights I would not pull over until I was in a very public spot. Officer B is dangerous. No way I'm pulling over for him in a rural area.

[Rick Lee]

Man, what more evidence do you need? Officer B needs to have his career derailed and fast. Anyone who has dash-camera videos disappear needs stiff punishment. It's a guaranteed loser in court and/or an opening to an expensive lawsuit, if not also a civil right complaint with the feds. Why would anyone want such a cop in their dept.?

[ramonesfreak]

the cop seems to be digging his own grave as far as his career and license to carry a hand gun is concerned and i hope he goes down fast and then disappears without killing somebody

good luck

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by srandallf

its not like client is facing a life sentence here

Well, no. But each of the charges carry various potential jail time from 14 days to 1 year. If found guilty on all charges and sentenced to the max (VERY unlikely), could get 2 years 3 1/2 months.

Plus loss of his drivers license for 1 year.

Nothing to sneeze at.

[Dueller]

One other point...since I'm frequently accused of bashing LEO's, please note I think Officer A acted with restraint and professionalism and headed off a potentially tragic result.