School me on safes

[Noney]

With the approaching Depression and consequent criminal activity that is sure to follow, I've been seriously considering a safe for the house. However, I know absolutely nothing about them. To me, a safe is a big, heavy, metal box that you put stuff in so that other people can't get to it. Is it really that simple? I started to look at various websites and discovered things like electronic locks, "burn times", hidden hinges, drill resistance ratings and a bunch of other things I had never thought about. I need a safe large enough to hold 5 guitars, 3 rifles and an assortment of other small objects and documents.

What info and advice can you offer to this newbie?

[VincentVega]

5 guitars, 3 rifles and an assortment of other small objects and documents.

That sounds like a BIG safe, unless you play small guitars. At the most basic level fire resistance is due to a lining of drywall in the safe. There are a ton of options if you want it to look nice or have custom shelves but you dont have to spend a mint, at least on a normal size, to get a quality safe.

Take a look at Bass Pro or any other safe selling establishment and it's pretty simple to tell the cheap from the quality. Then you just have to decide how many bells and whistles you want.

[Rick Lee]

Lots of good safe deals on Craigslist. Moving them around can be quite a project though. My dad bought one at an estate auction and had to have a tow truck deliver it, which cost more than the safe. It stayed with the house when they sold it.

[Robert Coats]

Originally Posted by Noney

What info and advice can you offer to this newbie?

A few things I've learned...

• Have the right manpower and equipment in place when moving it home; these things are scary-heavy
• Most have holes in the bottom to allow for bolting in place; take advantage of this.
• Exterior hinges allow the door to open greater than 90 degrees.
• Use a "golden rod" or other heating device to help prevent moisture and rust from forming on the rifles.
• If at all possible, park it inside the house where it's heated and air-conditioned.
• It may be cheaper to buy two small-to-medium units rather than one giant one.
• Take the obvious precautions about guarding the combination. I keep a copy of it in a safe-deposit box at the bank.
• While it is okay to be proud of the thing, the fewer people who know you have it and what is kept inside is a good way to go.

[Noney]

Excellent advice, gentlemen. I appreciate it.

When I look at all the safes on the various sites, they all seem to have a section about what to do if you forget or lose the combination. Most of them tell you to contact the manufacturer with some specific information and they will tell you the combo. Am I to believe that once the safe leaves the factory the combination is set and cannot be changed? This would seem like a real problem if you were to buy a used safe.

[tabs]

American Safe Company makes safes whose walls are filled with a lite cement. Many cheap safes can be cut with a Sawzall and can be opened like a sardine can. Also fire rating is important.

Every safe can be cracked if given enough time.

Be through in your research. A safe will last more than your liftime.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Make sure your slab is rated to handle the weight. They can get VERY heavy. Even the somewhat small commercial-grade safes used on some of my projects for fast-food establishments require a 6" pad (on top of the regular slab-on-grade) to prevent cracking and damage. It sounds like yours would be larger.

Obviously these need to go on the ground floor - or in a basement - unless you're going to strengthen the bejezus out of the floor (I'd have that designed/calced out).

Depending on your situation and how long you're planning on being there, it might be easier to construct a vault. If you want to go this way, PM me - I've got some information on bank vault construction, details & information you might find useful. The nice thing about a vault is you can make it any size you want. The bad news is they are not cheap (lots of reinforcing - more than you'd probably think).

[daepp]

AFAIK, even fireproof safes get very hot inside - much too hot for a guitar to survive very long in a house fire.

[Noney]

Originally Posted by tabs

Many cheap safes can be cut with a Sawzall and can be opened like a sardine can.

Holy crap! Are you serious? Like I said, I don't know much about these things, but I recall seeing safes at gunshows and at the locksmith that looked like they would survive a direct hit from a howitzer. I never really stopped and looked at them, so I guess I need to get out there and touch & feel some of these things.

POP, that's an interesting idea about a vault. I think that's a little bit beyond what I need at this point, however. I would like to be able to take the thing with me when I move also. The stand-alone units I am seeing online give weights in the 600-650lb range. Are you saying that a standard 6" slab would not be enough for that size safe?

daepp, I know what you mean about these things getting hot inside. I'm seeing numbers like 300 degrees Fahrenheit inside after 30 minutes of "burn". Definitely hot enough to turn my axes into flaming timber. I guess I'm more concerned about the "smash-n-grab" type of break-in.

Thanks again for the info guys.

[charleskieffner]

rule of thumb.............as i own (2) TWO,DOS,ZWEI !!

always OVERBUY ie. SPACE!

buying a 20 gun safe over a 50 gun safe may sound ample enough............NOT!

in 2 years time and yer wife cramming all her stuff and you cramming all yer stuff i swear you will say............."ya know he told me to overbuy on SIZE!"

buy the 50 gun safe NOW! you will thank me.

dont worry about weight unless ya plan on putting it on second floor.

hell most people here moan about concrete thickness for their car lifts. and a lift and a vehicle weigh a hell of alot more than a 50 gun safe!

4" of concrete is plenty good.

redhead safe to floor once installed. aint going nowhere until you want it to. then just use sawzall and cut red heads and have safe movers move.

buy a fireproof juan and stuff all hi value paperwerk in there.

do NOT BUY ancient stoneage dial combo............buy updated electronic lock. ie dont buy juan with 5R 25L 16L 38R 22L and it opens. will take you forever to memorize let alone open.

im in my electronic safe in about 1.2 seconds. plenty damn quick in the event zombeees at my door and i need a bigger dose of WHOOP ASS than my .45 will allow.

plan on spending $2500 plus. dont be cheap. it will last forever and the good juans do not have ANY PROBLEMS!

i use dessicant for when i run swamp coolers which introduce moisture thru house. lots of guns surface rust here because people ferget to use either golden rod or dessicants.

YOU WILL NEVER BE HAPPIER SLAMMING THAT DAMN SAFE DOOR SHUT WHEN YOU GO ON VACATION KNOWING IT WILL TAKE ABOUT AN ACT OF GOD TO BREAK IN!

if yer house burns to the ground................when you drive up to the smoldering ruins..............yer quality FIREPROOF SAFE WILL STILL BE STANDING AND ALL YER GOODS WILL HAVE SURVIVED if you bought a QUALITY FIREPROOF SAFE!