Have you introduced a new product to the marketplace ?

[svandamme]

how about patents???
if they do the same as the others, and just differ in quality...
then you are fair game for litigation if anybody holds a patent on that design...

not a real problem if you just make em yourself and sell em on fleabay
but if you ramp up production and market for real... somebody will start thinking , some money can be recuperated...

unless off course you improve on the design, and add some form of function that isn't there in the patent

or am i being thick?

[M.D. Holloway]

Prior art - never happen. He has improved upon an exsisting product with better materials and design. The proper thing would be to offer various sizes to accomodate not only Kyaks but bikes and such then offer them in a catalogue through a national distribution house.

[svandamme]

eeh Lube, improved? how?
they look exactly the same

changing the quality of the finish does not improve the design,
it's just the same design with better production standards

if it were, he'de have to file his own patent , to protect his own IP

dunno how much of a risk for actual litigation, but on a technical level, i don't see the design improvement, at least not from the above picture with the yellow kayak, compared to the other picture from the existing product

now i look at it... his product pic IS the pic from the catalogue, just smaller scale
it's not his product he's showing

so i don't know what to base myself on to compare it with the existing product... his is not shown...

[M.D. Holloway]

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt...

[Shaun @ Tru6]

this should clear things up. Gotta love you lubey, but you may want to stick to the Reader's Digest spiel.

[M.D. Holloway]

time to go grease one up and rub one out...

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt...

well, then my argument stands, there's no benefit of the doubt if there is somebody with a patent and some funds to go after those who infringe...

you could set up a whole business, work a few years, think you're doing fine
and then have it all take away through litigation
And you don't even need to loose it to loose your money, the lawyers will take care of that well before there's a ruling...

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Kevin,

Are you making these yourself or farming them out?

The fabrication is in house but I send them out to be powder coated

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by svandamme

eeh Lube, improved? how?
they look exactly the same

...

The imported ones are made from thin wall tubing (think electrical conduit) Mine are made as stated before from 3/4" 18 gauge steel. The capacity of the imported product is under 80lbs. Mine supported 160# before unfolding. The imported ones have a hole punched in the centerline of the tube for mounting. This weakens the tube and decreases any torsional load capabilities. The sheet metal squares that you see welded to the tube is 18gauge cold rolled steel which bends very soon after the part sees a load of any kind. The mounting tabs on mine are 3/16" which will hold more weight than the tube itself. My product is powder coated not painted. My product is made here in the States. Before I can offer these on a bigger scale I have to provide liability insurance coverage, not available on the China made product.
Other than that they are the same. As for a patent thats a whole different matter. There are no indications of a patent on any of the ones I've seen. This makes it fair game as far as I'm concerned.
Give me a little time and I'll take some side by side comparason shots for you.

[87coupe]

A good PR agency/person specializing in the sporting goods industry will know the buyer(s) for all the major retailers. Or if you have the time to pursue them yourself; put on you VP of Worldwide Sales hat and cold call the corporate offices for the target retailers.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by KevinP73

The fabrication is in house but I send them out to be powder coated

Since you're going black you should look into e-coat, it's much cheaper and still looks great with excellent durability.

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Since you're going black you should look into e-coat, it's much cheaper and still looks great with excellent durability.

I settled on Yellow with my last run but powder coating is the most expensive part of production. I'll look into the e-coating. Thanks

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by KevinP73

I settled on Yellow with my last run but powder coating is the most expensive part of production. I'll look into the e-coating. Thanks

No problem, we use it on a few different products and it's great, as long as you like black

For a pricing estimate they usually charge by the rack. You can make your own or they will make them at a cost. I pay $28 a rack and can fit roughly 100 pieces on each. Looking at your setup I see a Christmas tree style rack with maybe 40-50 on each(guesstimate).

[KevinP73]

Thats a huge difference in price. 26 units powder coated cost me $125.00. We are negotiating a better price but thats huge.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by KevinP73

Thats a huge difference in price. 26 units powder coated cost me $125.00. We are negotiating a better price but thats huge.

Yep, it's night and day. If you can't get samples locally (I bet you can) I'll UPS you some.

[KevinP73]

Here is the difference between theirs and mine. Theirs is black mine is the yellow.
You judge which is the better product. The cradle I used to illustrate my product was a reject but the specs are the same.
Keep in mind the price is the same for both.

Thin wall 7/8" compared to 3/4" 18gauge welded steel.


Sheet metal top tab is NOT intended to secure the cradle to the wall it's just to resist torsional loads. My tab is 3/16" and is used to secure the cradle to the wall. Their tabs are spot welded to the tube. Mine are mig welded.


The shaft on their cradle is punched in two places for the mounting hardware. There are no reinforcements around or in the punched holes. No holes are punched or drilled in my cradles.




Padding on their cradle is some sort of neoprene rubber that is bonded to the tube. It wears very quickly and cannot be replaced when damaged. My cradle has 3/8" closed cell foam that is slipped into place and can be replaced when it becomes worn.

[71T Targa]

Kevin, one 'advantage' I see to their's is that the hole in the tube will allow you to screw it directly in to the vertical wall stud. With your's you'll need another brace or something to screw in to.

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by phred68

Kevin, one 'advantage' I see to their's is that the hole in the tube will allow you to screw it directly in to the vertical wall stud. With your's you'll need another brace or something to screw in to.

I've considered that. The down side of their part is that the tube will collapse as the hardware is tightened and it will lose much of it's strutural intergity. Mine, when mounted in drywall with butterfly bolts held over two hundred pounds (218 to be exact) before the drywall started to fail. I also wanted to avoid the bolt thru the center because I thought my design would resist side loads better. The largest kayaks don't weigh more than 60 to 65 lbs max. Admittedly my design forces one to mount it properly and not with just a big screw in the wall. But I can address that with well detailed instructions.
Thanks for the feedback.

[slodave]

I'm still thinkin' that you are really trying to market a new "hair growth for men" formula...

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by slodave

I'm still thinkin' that you are really trying to market a new "hair growth for men" formula...

I'm thinking a "vaginal rejuvenation cream" would sell a lot better and it would be a lot more fun to rub on.