Some Days I Hate My Job

[Jim Richards]

+1 to Rick.

Byron came out of his corner swinging at the gub'mint for screwing his friend over taxes. The problem is, his friend, for whatever reason, has a substantial delinquent tax bill to be paid. This situation, and his reaction to it, shows a serious cognitive dissonance with his all-to-often professed beliefs. Many people are willing to blame an uncaring entity when they are discussing problems that people close to them (or close to them by association) experience. But when it comes to the an anonymous group of people having the same or similar problems, the response is cold, unsympathetic.

Of course, we can all wish away the dreaded taxman.

[JCF]

I also think it has something to do with the messenger.
If someone , like Jeff perhaps or Nathans_ Dad had opened this thread there might have been more charitable responses.

Maybe not ? This is PPOT after all.

Sorry to jump on you again Byron but an awful lot of your posts are ...not very sympathetic to others of opposing views. And you must realize that it makes it hard for some to be generous.
Your knee jerk conservatism gets on my nerves and I would venture to say others as well.
You may be a great guy for all I know but you come off as small minded when you come out swinging on every post that leans toward the left.
And here is a case that is just what some of those from the left see as a big problem not addressed by the law of the jungle far right mentality.
One that leads us to vent as well.
You're buddy may well have fallen through the cracks and can not pay for reasons or events a more sympathetic government might have saved him from.
Say a less expensive health care system if medical costs were involved.

I am not saying you need to go liberal on us , I understand the Republicans are also trying to do what they feel is best for the people (when both sides are not just wasting our money).

But if you want less antagonism you might want to try and be less...antagonistic.

I will apologize for my earlier rant, but I hope you see where it came from.
And I hope your bud is able to find a way to pay off his debt.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by JCF

Sorry to jump on you again Byron but an awful lot of your posts are ...not very sympathetic to others of opposing views. And you must realize that it makes it hard for some to be generous.
Your knee jerk conservatism gets on my nerves and I would venture to say others as well.
You may be a great guy for all I know but you come off as small minded when you come out swinging on every post that leans toward the left.

Here's what I find funny/interesting/weird about online forums like this. I completely agree that Byron's posts come off as knee-jerk conservative reactions that can really be frustrating and narrow-minded, but at the same time from reading his other posts, I get the impression that he's a fun, stand-up guy (maybe it's all the pics of him with chicks ) that, in person, I'd probably find more in common with than not.

As for his original post, I'll never hold someone to an opinion or statement made in anger or frustration - I may call them out on it, but will always allow for a correction. We all say things we don't mean when we're off-keel, and as I would've suspected, when he calmed down and posted again, he agreed with the hypocrisy that we all called him out on. I may disagree with a lot of what he posts on, but we never have long, heated debates on stuff we agree on, do we?

Byron, it must be weird to be reading about yourself in the 3rd person...

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

You talk about the stereotypical poor. This is apparently some imaginary person who sucks off the gubmint teat just because they want to. I would bet that if you actually talked to any of these people they don't think they are being lazy, they think they have legitimate reasons for being where they are in life. How is their situation any different? How can you deride people on welfare yet somehow decide this guy is getting screwed because he owes back taxes?

Rick, I have explained several times already, right here in this thread, how I feel the situations are different. I'm not sure how else I can explain. I'll try one more time, I guess.

The fundemental difference (to me) is this. I see one sort of individual who will make the effort of getting things turned around for themselves. If it is a one-time mistake, screw up, turn of luck - whatever. If they pick themselves up after correcting the situation and return to the right side of the law and a productive life, they gain my support and respect.

The other sort to which I refer simply always have some "reason" - maybe even valid in their own minds, for not even trying. They'll talk your ear off with their tales of woe, how they never get a break, how they are always unlucky. They spend their lives on the dole, never turning them around. Those are the ones I deride.

I never said, or agreed with anyone who said Byron's friend is getting "screwed". My only argument has been with those of you that began building his gallows on the first report that he owed back taxes. Of course they must be paid; I never argued that. I just found the lack of compassion for this guy a little bit dissapointing. Especially in light of the fact that we had so little to go on at the time everyone was chanting "hang 'em".

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The other sort to which I refer simply always have some "reason" - maybe even valid in their own minds, for not even trying. They'll talk your ear off with their tales of woe, how they never get a break, how they are always unlucky. They spend their lives on the dole, never turning them around. Those are the ones I deride.

Yes, I understand that but how many times have you seen one of these people or listened to their personal story? It seems you have this imaginary poor person all made up in your mind to substantiate your position. The reality of the poor is very different. Most of the poor people in this country are a lot like this guy, down on their luck and made some bad choices. I'm not supporting the welfare state or saying that there are no poor people who actively choose to remain poor, I'm sure there are. I'm simply saying that the law is the law. If you break the law, expect to pay the consequences.

No one called for his head, no one said to hang him. I simply suggested that he should pay his debt and deal with the consequences. Most likely, that is exactly what he is doing. My issue was with those who immediately played the evil gubmint card in response to this, many of whom are self proclaimed "conservatives".

I think a large part of what is wrong with our country right now is that people don't expect to pay any consequences. That's the issue at the core of our current credit crisis. People bought homes with money they didn't have and banks helped them do it. Who does the country look to when the house of cards falls down? The gubmint. McCain and Obama are out on the campaign trail right now promising to help these poor souls stay in their hard earned homes. BS I say. Why should everyone in the country pay the price for their dumb decisions? If they get foreclosed on, there are things called apartments. Build your wealth back up and THEN go buy a reasonable home. It ain't that hard.

If people would take responsibility for their actions and face the music when it comes, maybe they would make more careful choices next time instead of buying the plasma TV on credit, knowing they can just declare bankruptcy or go on welfare when the money runs out.

P.S. I'm not saying this was the man in question, I have no idea of his personal situation. I'm just ranting in general.

[JCF]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

I think a large part of what is wrong with our country right now is that people don't expect to pay any consequences. That's the issue at the core of our current credit crisis.

If people would take responsibility for their actions and face the music when it comes, maybe they would make more careful choices next time instead of buying the plasma TV on credit, knowing they can just declare bankruptcy or go on welfare when the money runs out.

I would only add that it isn't only the individuals that need to own up.
It wasn't the little people who were bundling those bad loans and then passing them on.
Collections of [irresponsible] people need to be held accountable as well.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

CPA and former full-time tax professional here...(also formerly moonlighted as professional entertainer).

I've followed this thread with interest. While this is a sad story, it doesn't sound like the gov't is screwing the little guy to me. As others have stated, a garnish doesn't just happen. The IRS will give plenty of warning beforehand. If the taxpayer has failed to take all available deductions, then he/she can file an amended return and reduce the assessed tax. If you don't have the cash, the IRS will set up a payment plan.

I've seen this kind of thing many times, especially with indy contractors. So many people fail to understand that they need to set aside $$ since there is no withholding. No matter the circumstances, its an uncomfortable situation and I hope that the person in question can work through it successfully.




I tend to agree with this thread's antagonist "stuartj" in concept.



I take it from this and other's comments that stuartj is not a resident of the USA. I'd like to point out that US citizens are required to file tax returns and pay US tax on their worldwide income even while living abroad. There are mechanisms in the tax code to mitigate the problem of double taxation, but any US citizen living abroad must continue to file annual returns. If you are a US citizen stuartj and have not been filing returns while abroad, you may be cheating on your taxes.

Thank you for your concern and advice. I can assure you that I am in full compliance with the US IRS.

You know, at the end of the day, as my Daddy told me, you only have a tax problem if you fail to pay your tax. The gentleman in question has earned the money and failed to pay the tax. I note that, as a tax professional, you agreed.

Regardless of the mitigating circumstances, no matter how heart wrenching, that is at the core of the issue.

You are correct, I was being the antagonist. My friend Racer makes Mussolini look like a CoE vicar but without any of the charm, wit or empathy. I took that position in order to highlight the outright hypocrisy of his position.

[Nathans_Dad]

Agreed, the banks and lenders need to be held accountable as well.

I do, though always come back to the fact that it is MY money and MY signature on that piece of paper.

I'm not a fan of drug dealers either but I don't think it is the dealer's fault that someone gets addicted to drugs. Well, maybe a little...90/10 or so.

[JCF]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Agreed, the banks and lenders need to be held accountable as well.

I do, though always come back to the fact that it is MY money and MY signature on that piece of paper.

I'm not a fan of drug dealers either but I don't think it is the dealer's fault that someone gets addicted to drugs. Well, maybe a little...90/10 or so.

True, and I agree, if I sign I am responsible.
But not all people think clearly or understand what they are signing.
No, not an excuse but those lenders were fully aware of that and used it to their advantage.
If what those banks and lenders are doing is dangerous to society they need to pay for what they take from those of us who do not sign.

This bailout thing is obscene.
Kind of like paying money to the drug dealers because they lost their product when people they sold it to got busted.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by JCF

True, and I agree, if I sign I am responsible.
But not all people think clearly or understand what they are signing.
No, not an excuse but those lenders were fully aware of that and used it to their advantage.
If what those banks and lenders are doing is dangerous to society they need to pay for what they take from those of us who do not sign.

This bailout thing is obscene.
Kind of like paying money to the drug dealers because they lost their product when people they sold it to got busted.

Now that is a great quote!!!

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Yes on one, no matter how the terrorist defending troll from down under tries to twist my words, I have never suggested that the taxes go unpaid, nore have I asked for any PPers to help pay his taxes, I posted to vent, that is all.

Well name calling isnt even clever- but dont you get sick of telling these lies, Racer? No one twisted your words. The words were precisely yours, in all their erudite magnificence.

"More of the government screwing the little guy"

You been called on this before, racer, about the lies you post with monotonous regularity over on the PARF. When are you going to learn?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Yes, I understand that but how many times have you seen one of these people or listened to their personal story? It seems you have this imaginary poor person all made up in your mind to substantiate your position. The reality of the poor is very different. Most of the poor people in this country are a lot like this guy, down on their luck and made some bad choices. I'm not supporting the welfare state or saying that there are no poor people who actively choose to remain poor, I'm sure there are. I'm simply saying that the law is the law. If you break the law, expect to pay the consequences.

Hmm... that's kind of all over the map, really. So, apparently, you have somehow garnered far greater insight into just how the poor of this country "really are" than I have. Interesting. I wonder how?

There is a quite well documented, and equally thoroughly discussed and studied portion of our population that has very much chosen to be lazy, and have chosen to have the rest of us support them in their laziness. I'm not sure what percentage of our population they comprise, but I am quite sure I have not conjured up these folks to "substantiate" my "position". I was merely using them to illustrate the difference between a one-time user of our welfare benefits and a habitual user of those benefits. Can we agree there is a difference? A fundamental difference? That is all I was getting at.

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

No one called for his head, no one said to hang him. I simply suggested that he should pay his debt and deal with the consequences. Most likely, that is exactly what he is doing. My issue was with those who immediately played the evil gubmint card in response to this, many of whom are self proclaimed "conservatives".

Yes, some did play that "evil gubmint" card.

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

I think a large part of what is wrong with our country right now is that people don't expect to pay any consequences. That's the issue at the core of our current credit crisis. People bought homes with money they didn't have and banks helped them do it. Who does the country look to when the house of cards falls down? The gubmint. McCain and Obama are out on the campaign trail right now promising to help these poor souls stay in their hard earned homes. BS I say. Why should everyone in the country pay the price for their dumb decisions? If they get foreclosed on, there are things called apartments. Build your wealth back up and THEN go buy a reasonable home. It ain't that hard.

If people would take responsibility for their actions and face the music when it comes, maybe they would make more careful choices next time instead of buying the plasma TV on credit, knowing they can just declare bankruptcy or go on welfare when the money runs out.

I could not agree more. Maybe I'm confused, but this sounds an awful lot like the folks you maintain I made up to support my position in your statement above. The folks you mention here very much fall into my category of "too bad, so sad" abusers of our welfare system. They made a conscious decisions to use the gubmint as their "backup plan", where it is not apparent that Byron's friend did so. I do see a difference.

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

P.S. I'm not saying this was the man in question, I have no idea of his personal situation. I'm just ranting in general.

Ranting is fine. I do that a lot. Just ask stuart...

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Hmm... that's kind of all over the map, really. So, apparently, you have somehow garnered far greater insight into just how the poor of this country "really are" than I have. Interesting. I wonder how?

No, I haven't garnered any more insight than you, I just don't make the same stereotypical assumptions you have (in this thread). There's a difference.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

There is a quite well documented, and equally thoroughly discussed and studied portion of our population that has very much chosen to be lazy, and have chosen to have the rest of us support them in their laziness.

Links to support this? Studies on this lazy group? Seriously, I'm asking.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I'm not sure what percentage of our population they comprise, but I am quite sure I have not conjured up these folks to "substantiate" my "position". I was merely using them to illustrate the difference between a one-time user of our welfare benefits and a habitual user of those benefits. Can we agree there is a difference? A fundamental difference? That is all I was getting at.

Yes, we agree there is a difference. I just have the suspicion that the percentage of poor that are truly abusing the system on purpose is much smaller than you think.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by JCF

True, and I agree, if I sign I am responsible.
But not all people think clearly or understand what they are signing.

Sorry, that's not an excuse. Stupidity is not an excuse, nor is ignorance.

If you are signing your name to a piece of paper that makes you responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, it is YOUR job to make sure what you are signing. If you don't understand it, find or hire someone who does.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Links to support this? Studies on this lazy group? Seriously, I'm asking.

Oh please... I'm honestly surprised at you, Rick, and disappointed as well. This is one of the oldest and most disingenuous ploys extant on PPOT, this demand for links and/or documentation to support such an easily verified statement. It has historically been employed by those with a compelling need to get in the last word in any given discussion, when they have run out of other ideas. I won't play this game anymore.

The existence of this class of people in the U.S. is so frickin' blindingly obvious, so thoroughly studied, documented, and discussed that you would have had to been living on another planet to have missed them. Many of the studies documenting their existence, their psychology, the social, racial, and economic environments in which they live, and many, many other areas of study concerning these folks are widely published and available. Go do a "google" search. Go to a library. Educate yourself on this topic. Information is just so damn readily available that I see no need to spoon feed it to you, or to play this tired old game.

[stuartj]

Yes but....fascinating as the anthropological and pyschographic dissection of the US tax base may be ...the gent under discussion hasnt paid his tax. The IRS is making him pay his tax. Racer, selfproclaimed arch conservative, argues this is (more of, mind) the govt screwing the little guy. Jeff, you are attempting to argue....what exactly?

Or are at this point are you trying to exit, mustering whatever dignity you can after leaping to the defence of a tax cheat, via obfuscation?

Surely looks like that.

Full astern, make smoke!!

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Oh please... I'm honestly surprised at you, Rick, and disappointed as well. This is one of the oldest and most disingenuous ploys extant on PPOT, this demand for links and/or documentation to support such an easily verified statement. It has historically been employed by those with a compelling need to get in the last word in any given discussion, when they have run out of other ideas. I won't play this game anymore.

TRANSLATION: I got nuthin'. I'm buggin' out.


Jeff, your arguments on this thread mirror your ITAG posts. You really need to work on your critical thinking skills, or your willingness to man up to making a mistake. Which ever it is. Rick is no uncaring, unsympathetic b_____d. He, stuartj, me and others have just simply called Byron out on his blame shifting. Blame shifting that is in stark contrast to Byron's political bent and the bile he likes to spew. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Oh please... I'm honestly surprised at you, Rick, and disappointed as well. This is one of the oldest and most disingenuous ploys extant on PPOT, this demand for links and/or documentation to support such an easily verified statement.

If it is easily verified, then you shouldn't have any problem supporting your statement.

It's not a ploy, you made the statement, I am asking you to back it up.

[mossguy]

Jeff, your arguments on this thread mirror your ITAG posts.

What is ITAG, please?

Tom

[mossguy]

Never mind. ITAG= Is there a god?

Tom