Stupid, weak, poorly engineered back!

[Pat S]

In May I herniated L4-L5 (moderate) and L5-S1 (severe) both to the left side. Forced me to sell the Boxster (too low to get in and out of) and make a bunch of other changes. At 34 I was in the best shape of my life, running 30m a week, working out like crazy, perfect weight, low body fat, good lean muscle. Then, no idea how, just woke up one day in pain.

Since then, I've gained fat and lost muscle, I still can not do hardly any ab exercises, and only about half of my normal weight training routine, but I am for the most part pain free during regular daily activities.

One thing I have been able to keep doing is running. I'm much much slower and my stride is short on my left, but last weekend I ran a cross country half-marathon with almost no back pain.

I've had an MRI and the top neurosurgeon in the area said under normal circumstances he would not recommend surgery, but since my livelihood is at least somewhat tied to physical capabilities, and for my mental well being, he said in my case he would recommend a partial discectomy.

I've talked to former patients of his and got other opinions. I keep pushing it off, but after only being able to do 2 situps today, I'm annoyed enough to reconsider and just get it done.

Sorry, just frustrated and wanted to vent....

[Oh Haha]

Sorry to hear this news, Pat.

I know I am ready for this stupid cast to come off my right foot (Wed.)

I can't imagine having pain that forced me to stop doing some of things I like.

My back hurts just about daily but I'm sure no where near what you are experiencing. My problem stems from lifting bags of dog food at my first job(2 at a time @50lbs each), playing drums for many years(lots of bending over and not sitting properly), and doing route work for several years(lots of bending as well as lifting cases or beverages several times per day).

I felt better when I slimmed down after my divorce but over the past 9 years I have gained a few pounds back. My goal after the holidays and when my foot can handle it, I plan to get down to a beter weight for my frame.

[RWebb]

I'd first ask if there is any reason (aging, add'l damage over time, etc.) that you can't wait and do the surgery in a several years.

Then I'd take yoga or tai chi for a few years and see how much bettewr things get. Don't take the Celebrex woman waving her hands kind of class, take the it hurts for days after each session kind of class. I have seen some unusual things happen...

Good luck!

[DonDavis]

I had the exact thing happen to my back in 2004 (L4-L5, L5-S1). I work on diagnostic imaging equipment and I know the tech that scanned me. She said it was one of the more severe ruptures she had seen. The doc said surgery. I did not want to do that so I went the physical thereapy route for several months.
It was tough.
I won't lie.

The first year was was very frustrating. Could'nt do crap. But stuck with the therapy and guarded my back religiously. I feel fine now. Few pangs here and there but I don't feel inhibited at all. Still have a little numbness in my left foot but no biggie.

Btw, I had shoulder surgery in March of this year. Had a torn labrum and hurt like hell all the time. That feels great now.

Back surgery scares the crap out of me. I see people all the time through my work that have serious problems and surgery has not helped. Conversely, I have met several folks that did therapy and woked well.

It's definitely a case by case issue. Only you can decide what's best. Plus, if you have surgery, you'll be in therapy anyway so why not try that first.

My .02 and ymmv

[Don Plumley]

My wife had a T12-L1 extruded disc in 2000 (at 38). Started to have a dropped foot, so intervention was called for. We interviewed a number of surgeons, including one which we told him he would not operate, but if this were his wife/daughter, would he?

She had a microdiscectomy and was skiing in 11 months. Zero post surgical issues, rapid recovery.

We too were very hesitant to have back surgery. But as opposed to spinal fusion (almost never good) or disc replacement, the microdiscectomy appears to have high efficacy and our experience was very good. If the same happened to me, based upon my wife's recovery I would have zero hesitation.

Trick is to pick the right doc. Many general Ortho surgeons are qualified to do it. Our doc did back surgery exclusively. That's the kind of specialist you'd want.

Good luck - and pm if you have any questions.

[Pat S]

Thanks guys,
I should have stated up front that I did have 3-4 months of physical therapy that did help get me out of the constant and severe pain, and I followed that up with with yoga that had only limited effect. For me, the only thing that really started helping was getting back to running regularly. Oddly, that is the one thing that most of the regular docs & physical therapist told me not to do saying that it could increase damage to the disks.

Of this surgeon's clients that I have talked to all have had a fantastic recovery and were quick to return to normal. One did however re-injure himself about 2 years after the initial surgery.

Don P, glad to hear it worked out for your wife also.

[Pazuzu]

Go see a chiropractor.

If you think they're quacks, suck it up and see one (or 2, or 3) anyways. You can probably get in for a first appointment for under $100, or covered by insurance. You should spend 45 minutes to an hour there the first time.

They might be able to help where others haven't. Honestly. Again, if you think they're quacks, suck it up and go. If you don't like what the first one said, go to another (some are quacks ). If 2 say "go get surgery", then take them seriously (they're good about passing you on if you can't be helped by them).

[Jim Sims]

Human backs and the human male prostate gland have to be among the prime evidence arguing against "intelligent design". I've avoided back surgery by changing my sleep posture and visiting a chiropractor as required (now maybe once every 18 months). Good luck!

[HardDrive]

Pat S, friend, you gotta stop running. I have 2 severely ruptured disks in my lower back. Physical therapy, and NOT doing high impact sports have left me basically cured.

I bike or walk, lift, rock climb. No problems. But 10 minutes on the basketball court, and I would be doomed.

Drop the running. I know it sucks. I loved running, but my back is so much better when I don't....

[Vipergrün]

I've ruptured L4/L5 twice, once in 1995 and once in 2006. I had surgery both times and personally would not have gone any other route. The procedure was easy and I was walking in 2 days. In fact, walking was a large part of recovery.

Also, personally, I'd stay as far away from chiropractors as possible. I think there's a real possibility they could make things worse.



I feel for you man!

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Jim Sims

Human backs and the human male prostate gland have to be among the prime evidence arguing against "intelligent design". I've avoided back surgery by changing my sleep posture and visiting a chiropractor as required (now maybe once every 18 months). Good luck!

yup - selection doesn't produce perfection; just something with higher fitness than the other junk running around the savannah...

[coolngroovy]

I am now in week 8 of a L2 L3 disc problem. This is my second round with it. Last time was 6 weeks off work. This time it looks worse.
Now my doc & chiro are telling me it's time to change jobs!

I know the booze is only masking the problem, but it beats thinking about my future!

It is soooo frustrating not being able to work on the car. I have dark moments when i think of selling, mostly from not knowing how long before i become 'normal' again!

I hate the pain killers, they mess me up! Now i use them sparingly!

Thank jebus for the internet, or i would go crazy!

Cheers, Col.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Pat S, friend, you gotta stop running. I have 2 severely ruptured disks in my lower back. Physical therapy, and NOT doing high impact sports have left me basically cured.

I bike or walk, lift, rock climb. No problems. But 10 minutes on the basketball court, and I would be doomed.

Drop the running. I know it sucks. I loved running, but my back is so much better when I don't....

what he said, if you are altering your gait, you are aggravating more than just your back

[Schumi]

Sounds really rough, I can't offer any advice..

I hate hearing these sort of stories. I was involved in a semi-serious car accident where I was rear-ended at about 45 mph about four months ago. I wasn't wearing a seatbelt (sitting in still traffic jam when someone behind didn't stop at all..) and had a little back pain after the accident but signed off the waiver refusing treatment as I thought it was muscle pain and no EMT's on the scene who examined me thought it was serious..

Now I wake up sometimes and have stiff movement & pain in my middle-upper back and it affects my sleep sometimes. I'm 21 years old, really kills me to think what this may be like later in life.

I hopefully will get some chiropractic work done here soon (finances =/= good) but I feel for ya Pat.