The only reason Pontiac should stay in business...

[strupgolf]

If GM does anything, dump the Buick line. My wife drives a 2001 Gran Prix and its one of the best cars we've ever owned, never any problems. With the 3800 V6, its gets close to 30 mpg on the road and 26 around town. What does Buick bring to the table that is different, etc, that IT cant be blended in with Chevy or ?.

[legion]

Originally Posted by charlesbahn

My last GM car used to stall unpredictably. You could be driving on the interstate at 65 in heavy traffic in the center lane and the engine would just shut off, and not restart. Took it back to the dealers and different mechanics about 100 times. Finally traded it in, and took a loss. GM was as helpful as a tit on a bull.

Funny, I know plenty of people with Porsches with the same exact problem.

I don't see the same reaction from people.

[legion]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I thought those were re-badged from Saturn

Other way around. The car was designed and initially released as a Pontiac. Saturn got its version a year later.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by legion

Other way around. The car was designed and initially released as a Pontiac. Saturn got its version a year later.

Both of them are a rebadged Opel Speedster.

[cairns]

Wow a better looking Panamera for 1/10 the price!

[legion]

No, the car was designed as a Pontiac. Opel got a rebadged version later, as did Saturn--not the other way around.

I was considering buying one when they first came out and was anxiously anticipating their release. I did a TON of research into them. They are made in Wilmington, Delaware. (The Opel, too.)

Why is it that some people will not accept that GM makes some pretty damn good cars.

If they slapped a VW badge on these all of the "haters" would be all over them.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by legion

Why is it that some people will not accept that GM makes some pretty damn good cars.

If they slapped a VW badge on these all of the "haters" would be all over them.

ha ha, depends I guess

I would take a '92 Sunfire convertible, with a 3sp auto, fat-arse flattened seats and cigarette burns everywhere over any VW product made after 1992

Not that I'm biased or anything

Having said all that, i DO think the Soltice and Saturn equivalent are dorky looking

[charlesbahn]

Originally Posted by legion

I don't see the same reaction from people.

Was the worst consumer experience of my entire 57 years. Remember the comedy sketch with Lily Tomlin- "We're the phone company and we don't care?" That was my experience with GM. I've never dealt with individuals who cared less about their product than GM, regardless of serious safety risks.

[dd74]

Though not a Pontiac, this is still a GM, and evidently a very fine machine.

The Chevrolet Cobalt SS was just rated very high in a little-fast-car comparo in C&D magazine. Supposedly it's all you need to be fast and handle well. Also, it beat the John Works Cooper Clubman, Subaru WRX and a bunch of other nice cars.

I guess what I'm driving toward is the American car companies can produce compelling automobiles. Just not often enough in many cases.

[Uber-fanatic]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

my '02 cheby truck has 160,000 miles of abuse. 25k pulling trailers. One trailer that it pulled from LA to Vegas 5-6 times was 22'X8x7.......

The truck still has is first set of brake pads and rotors.

There is no-way on God's green earth that the above statement is true...is there?
160K miles on ONE SET OF BRAKE PADS? Were the 25k pulling a trailer the first 25k or the last 25k out of the 160K?

Paaaaalllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaasssss

If so, do tell what you use to stop the vehicle with...a boat anchor? an old Macintosh 9600 Power PC?

Just curious...

[mikeferg75]

My father owns a Fleet Leasing business... I've seen plenty 160k cars and trucks turned back in on orig brake pads...

Ferg

[legion]

Most people don't trail brake and heal & toe...

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by dd74

Though not a Pontiac, this is still a GM, and evidently a very fine machine.
[IMG]
The Chevrolet Cobalt SS was just rated very high in a little-fast-car comparo in C&D magazine. Supposedly it's all you need to be fast and handle well. Also, it beat the John Works Cooper Clubman, Subaru WRX and a bunch of other nice cars.

I guess what I'm driving toward is the American car companies can produce compelling automobiles. Just not often enough in many cases.

Let me see it in 15 years; that's my test.

As it stands, I have yet to drive a 10-15 yr old GM car that doesn't drive like crap and feel like it is falling apart. When the day comes, and I hope it does, then I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

Trucks are another story. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a GM truck

[onewhippedpuppy]

Yeah, but the GM cars from 1993 WERE crap. Hell, they probably drove just as badly when they were brand new. They have a lot more appealing products today.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Yeah, but the GM cars from 1993 WERE crap. Hell, they probably drove just as badly when they were brand new. They have a lot more appealing products today.

I remember renting an '03 Cavalier for work and thinking "huh, this in't so bad, not as bad as I remember them". Fit and finish was better, handling and ride wasn't too bad, engine was noisy but you can't have it all.

But last month I drove an '04 that my cousin owns. Low miles and well cared for... it is a rattly, noisy piece of crap. Embarrassing compared to a Corrola, Civic, etc.

I keep reading that the Cobalt is leaps and bounds better. Still, let me see one after 15 years. Even 10 years.

[MotoSook]

I'd buy a G8....big bang for the buck and room to take the kids to school in.



The Soltice Coupe (and hopefully a Sky Redline Coupe) will be great track cars!

Originally Posted by legion

If they slapped a VW badge on these all of the "haters" would be all over them.

VW has already done that with the Chrysler minivan...

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Uber-fanatic

There is no-way on God's green earth that the above statement is true...is there?
160K miles on ONE SET OF BRAKE PADS? Were the 25k pulling a trailer the first 25k or the last 25k out of the 160K?

Paaaaalllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaasssss

If so, do tell what you use to stop the vehicle with...a boat anchor? an old Macintosh 9600 Power PC?

Just curious...

Don't tailgate, and it's amazing how long your rotors and pads will last. On a recent drive back home from the coast I was in a long line of cars, two lane blacktop. No place to pass. The bozo ahead of me insisted on riding the ass of the car ahead of him. His brake lights constantly flashing on & off... I'm sure the parts counter guy loves him.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Souk

VW has already done that with the Chrysler minivan...

Ha!

Ouch, hard to say who will be hurt more by that

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Souk

VW has already done that with the Chrysler minivan...

I hate that. I really wanted to be able to purchase a new Eurovan. NFW am I buying a rebadged Chrysler mini-van.

[MotoSook]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

I hate that. I really wanted to be able to purchase a new Eurovan. NFW am I buying a rebadged Chrysler mini-van.

I hate it too, Jim. But VW will probably earn enough profit from this excercise to make the accountants very happy.


I would have liked a 7 passenger micro van from VW with 4-motion. I think I could have sold Heather on that (as much as she didn't want a minivan). But the Saturn Outlook we have isn't bad....and until I test drove it after test driving Acura MDX's, I would have never thought to buy a GM product after bad experiences over the years.

So GM isn't all junk these days...with Saturn leading the way IMO.

If GM will just get rid of the really bad designs or start marketing the smaller cars with the verocity that they marketed their trucks....maybe they'll have a future.