Need a little advise

[126coupe]

My daughter graduates from college in the spring. She will have a degree in communications with honors. She has applied to law school and if she does not get accepted she needs to get a job. She lives in San Francisco and has very little work experience. The problem she has had in the past is the "work experience" dilemma .
Any advise will be appreciated. I realize its not the best time to be looking for a job, but............

[stomachmonkey]

Internship.

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Internship.

unfortunately law internships require you to be in law school.

[VincentVega]

Get her to the career office at school and have her talk to some one. I'm sure there are job fairs and internships lined up for people just like her.

[Jim Richards]

sales
marketing
advertising (account mgmt)
public relations
etc.

[MRM]

Getting into law school won't be a problem. The issue will be whether she wants to attend one of the schools she gets accepted to. No matter what, there's always a school that's willing to take you. I am living proof of that The question is whether she wants to be a lawyer. I know this is a simple question that should be self-evident, but in my experience very few people who go to law school really want to be lawyers. She should absolutely go to any school that accepts her - if she has a burning fire in the belly to be a lawyer. If she doesn't, she should not go to law school. If she goes to law school without wanting to be a lawyer, she will spend the rest of her life mismatched and unhappy. That's one reason why so many lawyers are so unhappy. They go to law school before realizing they don't want to be lawyers, and then they're stuck. DO NOT believe anyone who says that law school will prepare her for other careers or is a good way to hide out during the recession. The only thing law school does is qualify you to be a lawyer. If she wants to round out a liberal arts education, she should get into graduate school. If she wants to make money, she should get into business school. If she wants to be a lawyer she should got to law school.

Anyway, if she decides not to attend the schools she is accepted to, and she still wants to prepare for a legal career, she should think of internships. Law-related internships don't necessarily require that she is a law student. Being a law clerk requires her to be a law student, but she could intern with a corporate law department as a communications specialist, in the marketing department of a large law firm, or anything like that. And don't think that it has to be related to law for the internship/first job to prepare her for a career in law. Almost any good job will prepare her for law school and a legal career.

As for looking for a job, this semester while she is still in school, she should do any internship in her field she can to get the "real life experience" employers want. She should work on the school newspaper, the yearbook, volunteer to write copy for the communication department's newsletter, anything to show that she has some actual hands-on experience. Tell her not to worry about being paid; she's doing it to get the experience. That will put her head and shoulders above other graduating seniors who are looking for work.

[Zeke]

Well, some could advise her with advice.

[Hugh R]

When my daughter was 16 (now 23) she wanted to get a part time job. Instead of going the waitress route, I convinced her to go and get an office job at a doctor, lawyer, or accountants office. She went the accountant route and did that for two summers, then the accountant joined KPMG and got her to come and work with him in the summers (while in High School!, which is kind of unheard of). She went to college got a degree in accounting and worked at KPMG in the summers, she is now on partner track at KPMG and working on her CPA, at 23!

[Dueller]

MRM's advice is excellent. The reality of being a lawyer is far from the romantic depiction in the media. And consider this: if she has no real world experience when she graduates from law school it will be difficult for her to find a job in the legal world barring graduating at the top of her class/law journal/moot court honors.

Just out of curiosity, why does she want to be a lawyer? And what field of law is she interested in?

[widebody911]

Is she hot?

[jyl]

MRM's advice is good.

Becoming a lawyer is usually a lifetime committment. Law school is expensive, lawyering skills are not directly transferable to other jobs, and the income step-down from changing careers becomes too much.

Yet lawyering can easily be exhausting, stressful, tedious, or unrewarding - or all four - for the wrong person.

Result is a lot of trapped and unhappy lawyers.

Before she enters law school. she needs to find out what the job is really like. Find some lawyers to talk to, not young naive ones either, but 40 y/o ones.

I was a lawyer for 13 years and became partner in a firm before I got out. Transitioning to a new career took going back to grad school and starting all over at the bottom.

Not telling her to avoid the profession - plenty of people thrive on the work - but going to law school is a far bigger committment than earning a communications degree.

[911Rob]

a lawyer? Why?

[ramonesfreak]

the dilemma she will be in was the same one I was in, and, is the silly reason i went to lawschool.

communication degree, business degree....tough market. not alot of satisfying jobs without advanced degrees. typically what i found available was commision only jobs...."Estate Planning" type crap. Honesty, now days, its quite normal for a college graduate to wonder why they even bothered

man if i could go back and get the $300K that my education cost, damn i would be stoked

[ramonesfreak]

didnt we have this exact same thread last year?

[RWebb]

Concur - esp. with the lead in:

Originally Posted by MRM

... The issue will be whether she wants to attend one of the schools she gets accepted to. No matter what, there's always a school that's willing to take you.

BUT, lawyers do lots of things you or she may not be thinking about as "lawyer stuff." An aid to a federal or state representative is one.

Law schools are often populated by bright people who cannot do math. Often, they no real idea why they are there except that they are smart, non-scientific, and have no focus yet on what they really want to do.

But I would not discount thew value of learning the sort of analysis taught in law school. It is different from the analysis a scientist or engineer does, but it is nontheless a valuable skill.

Lawyers complain a lot, but it beats digging ditches for a living.

My view on law is why do it if there is not an important public purpose involved -- but I am not real money hungry and have other things to do with my time.

What is her general thrust in life?

[ramonesfreak]

I have given MUCH thought to the topic of how one can go about learning whether a career as a lawyer is right for them. Its too late for me now, obviously, to go back in time. But, from time to time, someone will ask me if they should go to lawschool. I have little to offer them

In my opinion, there is no way to know for sure. Some people just know....im not sure why

The only non-attorney job that strikes me as giving some insight into what some lawyers do, is the position of insurance claims handler. Im not talking about the guy that goes to look at your dented fender after an accident.

If she could get a job at an insurance company handling, for example, workers' compensation claims, she would get the experience of having to reading medical records, researching medical terms, how to negotiate, how to make decisions to pay or not pay a claim, understanding how to force a claim into litigation or avoid litigation, how to communicate with lawyers, reading deposition transcripts, on and on etc.....

Of course there are many fields of law that have nothing to do with insurance companies but i cant think of any non-attorney jobs in those areas that would prepare a person, or give insight into what lawyers do

lawschool is ZERO insight into what being a lawyer does every day....except the reading and problem solving part

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by Dueller

MRM's advice is excellent. The reality of being a lawyer is far from the romantic depiction in the media. And consider this: if she has no real world experience when she graduates from law school it will be difficult for her to find a job in the legal world barring graduating at the top of her class/law journal/moot court honors.

Just out of curiosity, why does she want to be a lawyer? And what field of law is she interested in?

She feels it "fits" her strongest points, which are 1. Always has been the top writer in all classes. 2. She is great at communication and argument. 3. Loves research and endless hours of concentration.

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by milt

Well, some could advise her with advice.

I know, I know the first thing Natasha said to me was, "Dad, you spelled advice wrong"

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by srandallf

didnt we have this exact same thread last year?

Well sorta, she is in the panic mode, applying for schools, second guessing herself, typical 21 year old crap.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Dueller

And consider this: if she has no real world experience when she graduates from law school it will be difficult for her to find a job in the legal world barring graduating at the top of her class/law journal/moot court honors.

i disagree. it will be easy for her to find a job as a lawyer BUT, she may be making only $25K per year, doing work she dislikes or is not interested in... but thats real life

My first attorney job in 1997 paid $25K per year. The next year 30K, the following year I skipped firms and doubled it, on and on....

I have alot of friends that are new lawyers in their first jobs.....getting paid about $40K per year avg. now. And it should go up quite quickly after 3 or 4 years of experience

Im not talking about ivy league schools and white shoe firms obviously. im talking about what its "typical" for an average new law school graduate