Court: Teachers can have sex with 18-year-olds

[HardDrive]

Sitback and watch the fireworks....

http://www.komonews.com/news/37515019.html

By Associated Press SEATTLE (AP) - State law does not bar teachers from having consensual sex with 18-year-old students, an appeals court ruled Tuesday in dismissing a case against a former Hoquiam High School choir teacher.

The teacher, Matthew Hirschfelder, was charged with first-degree sexual misconduct with a minor for allegedly having sex with a graduating senior in 2006. He challenged a judge's refusal to dismiss his case, noting that because the student was 18, she wasn't a minor.

A three-judge panel of the Washington Court of Appeals unanimously agreed. While the law was written vaguely, a review of the legislative history clearly shows that lawmakers intended to criminalize contact between teachers and 16- or 17-year-old students, the court said.

The state's code of professional conduct for teachers still prohibits any sexual advance toward or contact with pupils, whatever their age, and they can be fired for it. Sexual contact with students younger than 16 is considered child rape or molestation.

"There's nothing equivocal about teacher ethics: You don't have sex with a student, period," said Hirschfelder's attorney, Rob Hill of Olympia.

Hirschfelder, who was 33 at the time, denies any sexual relationship occurred.

Before 2001, state law barred anyone at least five years older than a 16- or 17-year-old from abusing a supervisory relationship to coerce the teen into having sexual relations. That law applied to teachers as well as anyone else - such as a teen's boss or coach.

However, the law required prosecutors to prove that coercive tactics were used, such as the promise of a better grade - making it difficult to go after teachers who had relations with a student they didn't directly supervise.

In 2001, lawmakers decided they wanted to close that loophole. They passed a bill outlawing all sexual contact between teachers and students "at least 16 years old." The new language didn't clarify what happened if the student was over 18.

The Grays Harbor Prosecutor's Office argued that the law should be interpreted as covering all students older than 16. People are allowed to attend public high schools in Washington until they are 21.

In an opinion authored by Judge Marywave Van Deren, the appeals court rejected that argument, saying the law was intended to criminalize only contact with 16- and 17-year-old students, and that the age of majority in Washington is 18.

"The name of the statute is 'sexual misconduct with a minor,"' Hill noted.

Grays Harbor County Prosecutor Stew Menefee did not immediately return a call from The Associated Press, but he told The Daily World newspaper of Aberdeen on Tuesday that he would consider appealing.

Several teachers have been prosecuted under the law for having sex with 18-year-old students, said Seattle lawyer David Hansen, who filed a friend-of-the-court brief on behalf of the Washington Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.

In 2007, former Hoquiam wrestling and football coach Todd Hoiness was sentenced to five months in jail after he pleaded guilty to sexual misconduct with a minor. That case too involved an 18-year-old student.

Hirschfelder has not been able to work as a teacher since late 2006, when he was placed on administrative leave pending an investigation by the school board. He was arrested and charged in spring 2007, after the former choir student told police she had a monthslong affair with him that began shortly before she graduated.

Hill said Hirschfelder has been tuning pianos to make ends meet

[pwd72s]

Ask any college professor...happy hunting grounds.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Ask any college professor...happy hunting grounds.

Have you ever actually asked a college professor that?

You'd have trouble finding one that would consider their campus to be a "happy hunting ground". Huge ethical codes stand in the way of any "hunting".

[svandamme]

the bigger the risk, the better the hunt

hunting for lions with a pocket knife vs hunting a limp duck with a shotgun...

[red-beard]

One of my former girlfriends, her father was a professor who seduced students. He was married something like 5 or 6 times, usually ending up with a child from each one. All of his wives were former students.

Needless to say...she was the most screwed up chick I ever dated. Hottest and wildest too. And sad really. She was very smart and had high ambitions. I didn't help her, I was one of the few guys that broke up with HER.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Have you ever actually asked a college professor that?

You'd have trouble finding one that would consider their campus to be a "happy hunting ground". Huge ethical codes stand in the way of any "hunting".

Consider or admit?

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by red-beard

One of my former girlfriends, her father was a professor who seduced students. He was married something like 5 or 6 times, usually ending up with a child from each one. All of his wives were former students.

Oh, they exist, but they are people who would be commiting such acts outside of a campus environment also.

And...where they former students, or former people who went to the school where he worked? There are levels of ethics involved...if someone was interested.

Dating an actual current student? You'll probably never teach again.
Dating a former student? Can be an issue, but not generally breaking any school rules.
Dating someone who never was or never will be your student, but may still be 18 and 30 years younger than you? Simply frowned upon.

[red-beard]

She was 37 when I was dating her, and that was 10 years ago. So this was going on about 50 years ago...Can you say 1960's?

They were Grad students of his. Direct students.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Have you ever actually asked a college professor that?

You'd have trouble finding one that would consider their campus to be a "happy hunting ground". Huge ethical codes stand in the way of any "hunting".

A couple that we have befriended in the past couple years...yup. He was her professor. She was a grad student, but still, I'm bet she is no more than 30, and he is in his mid 40s.

It DOES happen, and I'm not so sure its just the professors doing the hunting. A college professor is not such a bad catch.....

[9dreizig]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Oh, they exist, but they are people who would be commiting such acts outside of a campus environment also.

And...where they former students, or former people who went to the school where he worked? There are levels of ethics involved...if someone was interested.

Dating an actual current student? You'll probably never teach again.
Dating a former student? Can be an issue, but not generally breaking any school rules.
Dating someone who never was or never will be your student, but may still be 18 and 30 years younger than you? Simply frowned upon.

This is BS,, we've all seen Animal House and know it was a documentary...

[m21sniper]

I have no problem with this ruling. People should be able to bang who they want.

[Racerbvd]

[ruf-porsche]

I taught Autocad to a group of interior designers, so 99% were girls and the other 1% was gay, they were all over 18 years old (they were between high school and marriage), and that is all I'm going to say about this.

[rnln]

ruf,
hey tell us some more detail

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

I taught Autocad to a group of interior designers, so 99% were girls and the other 1% was gay, they were all over 18 years old (they were between high school and marriage), and that is all I'm going to say about this.

Excuse me sir, may i leave vicariously through your penis?

[kimlangley7]

I was a studly stud in the mid 70s..... college art professor [female] seduced me ... aka Mrs Robinson...... she was in her 40s..... I was 23

was OK with me.... as I was "getting some"

my brothers and guys in the house we shared freaked.... [I had to bail ]

[legion]

This thread perfectly illustrates the difference between doing what is ethical and doing what is legal, and why they are not (nor should be) the same thing.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

I taught Autocad to a group of interior designers, so 99% were girls and the other 1% was gay, they were all over 18 years old (they were between high school and marriage), and that is all I'm going to say about this.

Are you sure your not just remembering the start of some porn movie called 'Vectors and Vaginas"?

[RWebb]

I could rasterize that...

[m21sniper]

Get your head out of the recycling bin RWebb.