Will building codes apply for a hunting cottage?

[Taz's Master]

I'm in Tioga County, where are the rural highlands? Certainly there are building codes, I believe Pennsylvania has adopted the International Building Codes, but square footage determines the permits by townships (at least here it did). Under a certain number of sq. ft. no permit required, then from there to a certain sq. ft. doesn't need to meet code, above that structures must meet code.

23 acres isn't really much land. There are pretty remote areas of PA, but the idea that nobody will ever know is unlikely, maybe they don't know the codes enforcement officer, but maybe they do. That township's inspector might have hunted right there for decades and doesn't like the idea of an "upfrom" buying and hunting there. Everyone knows all the problem hunters are drunks from Pittsburgh or Philly, so if you get caught cheating, expect it to be expensive.

My advice (and it is worth exactly what it is costing you) is to find out what the sq. ft. limit for a no code structure is and build to that. If you need storage, build a shed small enough that it doesn't need a permit. I don't know about septic, possibly an outhouse, I have very little understanding of sewage permits other than perking for an inground system is pretty rare. And I'd haul in a generator for electric.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Like out here we do whatever we please. If it is your own property and not going to be sold in the near future it does not matter. We have built several new buildings with full utilities and never hear a word. Now not saying that applies to you but never hurts to check. Or you could do it all yourself and slip the local plumber and electrician a coupla ben franks to check it over and sign-off on it.

First you tell him that it doesn't matter if he don't follow the building codes, then you tell him to bribe public officials to look the other way (which is a felony).

Will you send him a hacksaw in a cake when they throw his ass in the slammer?

[Taz's Master]

From a conversation I had this morning, the septic is a real issue. I was told (certainly not an unimpeachable or 100% up to date source, but one I trust) that in PA even a composting toilet must have an approved septic system. If you just want a cabin for sleeping and eating and don't plan on installing plumbing, I think I'd couch my permit request in terms of a supply shed for hunting/camping equipment, and would not allude to plans for even part-time habitation. If you want to do it all on the up-and-up, probably setting up a site for a trailer would be easiest, but to build I could see needing a septic permit from the sewage enforcement officer, and there is no guarantee that the land would perk for any system regardless of cost.

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

First you tell him that it doesn't matter if he don't follow the building codes, then you tell him to bribe public officials to look the other way (which is a felony).

Will you send him a hacksaw in a cake when they throw his ass in the slammer?

Not bribe officials. Pay a pro to come in and look at the work and say ya its good or you need to change this and this. T

[ruf-porsche]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

.............slip the local plumber and electrician a coupla ben franks to check it over and sign-off on it.

Being from the state of the next President of the United States and also the state in which the current govenor will be impeach and thrown out of office and convicted of various criminal activities and thrown into the jail cell next to our previous govenor, I mistook you words when you said to slip a couple of ben franklin to check it over and sign off on it.

That sounded like a pay off. I wonder if Blageo could use that as a defense?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

Building codes exist to guard the health, safety and welfare of the public.

+1

The problem is when someone else stumbles across it while out hiking, or you lend it to a friend for a weekend, or you have someone over with you while you're using it, or you sell the land and someone else goes into it, then the thing falls down and kills someone.

Check with the local agency before you do anything else to find out what the requirements are. If you just say "screw it" and build without permits or try to "get cute" by abusing loopholes, they eventually WILL catch up with you and it'll be far more difficult, expensive and time-consuming to set things right.

There are a lot of homes sitting on the market right now (mostly bank-owned) that are having to be demolished due to "non-permitted work". It's too expensive for the banks (or any prospective buyers) to bring the paperwork up to snuff with the cities, so the banks are just opting to demo the buildings and sell the raw land.

Building departments and inspectors are (more often than not) reasonable people who will work with you - until you try to ***** them over. Then they can, will and SHOULD get very nasty, very quickly.

Either call the city or go down there yourself or for chrissakes stop being so cheap and hire a professional to do the initial investigation for you. Why is this even a subject of discussion? Do you guys try to cheap out on your own brain surgery too by advertising for guys on Craigslist or what?

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

+1

The problem is when someone else stumbles across it while out hiking, or you lend it to a friend for a weekend, or you have someone over with you while you're using it, or you sell the land and someone else goes into it, then the thing falls down and kills someone.

Check with the local agency before you do anything else to find out what the requirements are. If you just say "screw it" and build without permits or try to "get cute" by abusing loopholes, they eventually WILL catch up with you and it'll be far more difficult, expensive and time-consuming to set things right.

There are a lot of homes sitting on the market right now (mostly bank-owned) that are having to be demolished due to "non-permitted work". It's too expensive for the banks (or any prospective buyers) to bring the paperwork up to snuff with the cities, so the banks are just opting to demo the buildings and sell the raw land.

Building departments and inspectors are (more often than not) reasonable people who will work with you - until you try to ***** them over. Then they can, will and SHOULD get very nasty, very quickly.

Either call the city or go down there yourself or for chrissakes stop being so cheap and hire a professional to do the initial investigation for you. Why is this even a subject of discussion? Do you guys try to cheap out on your own brain surgery too by advertising for guys on Craigslist or what?

If he is building a part-time residence, fine I agree. He will need to secure the proper permits and pass the required inspections. They are unavoidable, and the inspection process will help to result in a more sound structure.

But if all he wants to do is put up a pole building to keep himself and his belongings dry and secure, why should an inspector fail the construction because he doesn't have R-38 insulation in the ceiling, or have the DEP run an endangered species impact study for a shed? As for calling the city, or going down himself, well, there
is no "city". None, and likely no zoning. In all probability the sewage enforcement officer will be in one township, the permit officer in another, the building inspector in third, and you will need to submit the survey and permits to the county. If he is building with full utilities, the permit process will be quite cumbersome, and here I must advise quite firmly: Get the survey done by a surveyor familiar with the local gov't. entities and procedures.

[911Rob]

Building departments and inspectors are (more often than not) reasonable people who will work with you

imo best avoided when all possible, but that's just my opinion. I never have a challenge with these people, but they are a challenge.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

imo best avoided when all possible, but that's just my opinion. I never have a challenge with these people, but they are a challenge.

My experience has been that they were very helpful, a resource for procedural information, and helped to make my project a better building. And I went into the project assuming the inspectors would be an obstacle, but the reality has been that they facilitated the construction project. Even the DEP, while remarkably slow, was easy to deal with.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

That's my take too. They obviously want their pound of flesh and some occasionally want their butts kissed a little, but if you go in and stroke their egos a bit and not with a cocky attitude (essentially let them feel like they're 'the guy') you get results and assistance. If you go in with a "my poop don't stink" attitude or like "I've done a dozen of these and I resent having to jump through your agency's B.S. hoops", they'll make life miserable for you. I've seen it happen enough times.

For the most part, most of the guys (and gals) in B&S departments are just there trying to do a job, not to impede your progress or be unreasonable. If you give them a REASON to be unreasonable and make life difficult for you, they will. Same goes for Fire Dept's, Planning Dept's (although they actually tend to be the worst, IMHO), etc.

How hard is it really to pull up a web page, make a phone call or go down and talk to a guy behind the counter for 20 minutes? Really?