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Never been a member, never will be. Its those 356 comments.... Dad was a member, back when the 356 was the only Porsche... but once those fancy 6 cylinder cars came out he dropped...
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BTW I checked. Betty Jo Turner has been editing Panorama for 38 years. Unbelievable and long time past her sell by IMO. That mag needs fresh blood and a fresh perspective. Please PCA officers- thank her for her service, show her the door and take some active steps to improve our magazine!! Why on earth would we keep one person in this position for this long?
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I have been a member since I first bought my car. The PNW region holds half a dozen DE's every year and has what has got to be one of the best driver training programs in the nation. My oldest son joined (at my insistance) three years ago when he bought his SC, and went through the whole program. My youngest son will join when we finish his car later this winter ('68 912 to 911 conversion, with a 2.4 MFI motor). He will go through the whole drivers' training program as well.
My wife really enjoys their tours, so that is one way we spend some "Porsche time" together. She likes the fact that there are a lot of women who show up, both driving and riding with their husbands or boyfriends. She is also comfortable with the pace they like to drive. It really is as much social (and not purely car centered social) as it is driving, which suits her well. My other club, on the other hand, is far more serious about the driving. She does not appreciate the pace, nor the fact that any socializing is pretty much purely centered about "car talk". A lot of women only show up to drive/ride with us once and then graciously bow out. She doesn't want to be the only woman there, so that is "my time" with the cars and like minded guys. The PCA serves to balance that by including her. That's goodness... |
Jeff points to the fact that the local PCA chapter has more to do with one's PCA experience than anything else. I spent some time with the Redwood region an had a great time.
Troy |
Yep, I renew every year!
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This area has some great people and good events, almost all car people The DE's 2 of them are outstanding, the group is largly DIY ers For what you get it's a great value.
I'm not a club kinda of guy either, Certainly not a wine and cheesier. Pano, well it could have less advertising. |
I am a member, RMR, I haven't ever done anything with them, and really need to. To be honest, with two kids under 6, I just don't have the time for all the activities I'd like to do. As a Porsche owner though, I support the PCA.
Not to mention, Denver, northern colorado has a very active Pelican community, we have the monthly breakfasts, and then go on a couple of drives a year. I have met some great Pelicans over the years... Bill |
Yes, I'm a second year member. I've attended all the auto x's offered even in neighboring regions. I haven't committed to DE's yet because I know it's all over, that down hill slippery slope. We do have a new track to look forward to though, High Plains Raceway in eastern Colorado.
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Damn fine question. |
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I'm a 5 year member of PCA and a 5 year owner of a BMW. I finally got a BMWCCA membership last year. The Roundel magazine BLOWS Panorama away by leaps and bounds. I commute on the train and carry it around until the next one comes. The only thing I can recall reading in Panorama of interest lately was the article on the two woman that restored the old car. The rest is boring as hell or old out of date race news. They don't really even cover club racing do they? |
They cover it but sporadically. When I've asked locally about it everyone agrees Pano is pretty bad that we should change etc. but evidently Betty Jo is sacrosanct. Why I don't know and you're evidently not going to hear a club officer comment on the situation (some are on here I'm sure).
I'm sure she's a great person and has no doubt done a lot for the club but it's kind of ridiculous in my view. Pano does some good things (the relation of Cayman experiences by owners in the current issue is great) but it's generally old and boring recantations of Porsche glory days and blind adoration for anyone within the company and anything the company does. I hate to think my dues are paying for propaganda and her trips to the old country to spout more of the same. The sad part is it could be a GREAT magazine and really generate enthusiasm for the club and the cars. |
in this one thread you've heard from the VP and the Executive Director of PCA.
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just to be clear (as if it isn't clear enough) if i'm on the throne and there is a pile of pano and a pile of family circle in front of me i'm picking up the family circle.
Perhaps Betty Jo (and i really don't care for naming one person like this; i mean it is someone's livelihood) is given the direction and doesn't actually call the shots on how the mag looks. Perhaps the feedback isn't given to her. Perhaps when it comes down to it the guys in the office just don't have the stones to say 'betty jo we need to change this thing up and turn it into something more than a church newsletter'. |
...that is one sad (but painfully true) commentary on the mag that purportedly represents the best car club in the world. OK officers if you're on here speak up...it's not like we can print a letter to the editor that's going to be published....and you guys know darn well the current Pano is not helping retaining members.
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What, more specifically, would you guys like to see changed about Panorama. That is, if you were in charge, what changes would you make? (I have no connection or loyalty to anyone at the magazine, but I am starting to write more content for the book, and would love to know what you'd like to see more or less of. Particularly since I just got the new issue in the mail and it's the worst ever. A third of it is an ad for the "new" Cayman, a third of it is letters from people about their current Caymans, and a third of it is an ad for the 2009 Parade in Keystone. I glanced through it and wham - right in the circular file.)
Specifically: 1) How would you change the subject of the content. More articles about older cars? More racing coverage? More modified cars? More technical and "how to" articles? Maybe articles about great driving routes? Articles about influential or interesting Porsche-related people? What would YOU like to se when you open the next issue? 2) What do you think of the "tone" of the writing? (I have heard some people say it is not critical enough - too fawning - so they don't really "learn" anything about the subject. Everything reads like an advertisement.) Is the text too corporate and dry? Or do you like the writing, but just don't like the subjects? 3) A number of people mentioned how great the BMWCCA's Roundel magazine is by comparison. Why, exactly, is it better? Any other suggestions? If everyone in the country thinks the magazine stinks, then maybe with everyone's input we can slowly start to make some changes, no matter whop is in charge. |
IF you could have the chance to give Panorama a facelift, what would you like to see?
More Tech? Questions and Answers or a DIY with photos? More or less pro racing? More or less coverage of regional events? Do you want to read a play by play of a club race or a 'behind the scenes/human interest' story in that club race? Do you read the Michael Cotton and/or Bill Oursler columns? While I enjoy reading comments about the club on forums, if I have members and their names I can bring to the table, it's so much better :) I would enjoy reading your thoughts, suggestions, concerns and complaints about OUR club's magazine. YOUR the members, this club is for YOU, so let's hear from you. Here's the email addresses for the Panorama Editor and the Executive Council. Send an email to them. I can assure you it will be read and discussed. Betty Jo Turner, Panorama Editor-porpan@mindspring.com Executive Council President, Kurt Gibson kurtg@pca.org Vice President, Manny Alban (that's me) carrerados@aol.com Secretary, Caren Cooper carencooper@austin.rr.com Treasurer, Ruben Ledesma pcatreas@pca.org Past President, Prescott Kelly kellyct@optonline.com Executive Director, Vu Nguyen, admin@pca.org |
Good questions.
1. Here's what I'd like to see, just as examples: Far more interactive content- letters to the editor and honest answers- whether it be problems with the dealer, the company or just a congratulations to someone locally that did something special. A MUCH bigger technical section. How to's are wonderful (see excellence). Restoration articles- with pictures- there are some fantastic examples out there but they only seem to show up in Excellence. A DE/Auto X feature every month. Developing skill levels, nationalizing standards, analysis of incidents, instructor improvement etc. Historical articles that are just that- Porsche has a great history and some skeletons. It's all interesting- but tell it in a way that is so and includes the bad. Kill the fawning over the genius of Mssrs. Wendelin, Peter and the late Dr. and don't ever print one of their speeches again (what a waste of paper!). An honest to God car test. Compare the 911 to the new M3, the Cayenne to the X5 or ML and do so HONESTLY. BMW does it- why can't we? A larger format- see Roundel, Star and other club magazines. Are we that broke? 2. The current issues are basically Porsche press releases. With pictures furnished by the masters. 3. See 1 above. And please note- I don't mean to single out Betty Jo. As I said I'm sure she's a wonderful person who has done great things for the club. But we elect new officers (national and local) every year and regularly change local editors, chief instructors etc. 38 years is simply too long and the magazine reflects that. So I'll ask again- why we would keep a person in that position for so long??? That is not a good thing- for her or the club. |
see if conrpanzer would be willing to do some consulting. guy writes a damn fine article.
in general though: -make it a rule that absolutely ZERO stock photography is allowed. -no more than 10% content devoted to currently available models. -more and bigger pictures -historical stuff like old factory pics, old race pics, 'where is this famous car now and who owns it' type stuff. -ask Wayne to chronicle his 959 experiences. -tell us about pca racers who kick butt in other series (SCCA, etc) -do an 'i remember the time....' section where people like Grady Clay, Weldon Scrogham, Chad McQueen and other characters share pics and stories about specific events/races/etc. -more features on bastard cars. -tell us a story about joe schmoe for hoboken deciding to race his beater 912 in a hillclimb and put some darned soul into the writing (and pics!) and tell us how he went about fixing it up, etc. etc. -tell us when Elephant Racing comes out with a new product for front suspension bushings. -how about a story on track camera setups? has this been done? -how about calling b.s. on the panamera and asking if the people who designed the interior of the Cayanne have ever even been inside a MB ML series. -how about a 'what can i do to lighten my car' series of articles? -how about story on the iterations of black beauty? -how about calling Jim Richards and asking him to share his story/pics on his cross country drive? Perhaps the folks at Pano should be given subscriptions to Excellence, 911 & Porsche World, etc. |
Manny I would ask that you refer the editors to this board (which they should reading already) and the others (6 speed/Rennlist etc.) and have them do a search on Panorama. I'm certain suggestions like those above (and many others better than mine) have been made- probably many times- before. I'm pretty sure they've been seen, read and discussed. But I don't think they've been acted upon or will be in this case. And while I don't know how much control the officers or members have over the content of the magazine it doesn't appear to be much if any. If I've been doing my job for 38 years without question or interference why would I care what you think?
There seems to be an attitude about the magazine that is highly resistant to change and I frankly fear (yes I'm gonna say it but I don't like doing so) that there's an incestuous relationship between the editors and the company- don't criticize us and we'll fly you over to drive the new models, meet with former drivers, feed you photos etc. I hope there isn't a conflict of interest- but the way Panorama reads there sure appears to be one. Roundel will criticize BMW the company and critique particular cars all day long- pretty vehemently. But I can't recall ever reading a critical word from the editors at Panorama- in fact it's just the opposite and way over the top. The current months press releases on the new Cayman and Panamera (let's face it that's all those articles are) are just more examples. The magazine should be the voice of the club- not the company. |
Remember, by the way, that PCA gets two for the price of one, which they probably feel is a pretty good deal. Leonard Turner, who takes virtually all the photos (including covers) for the magazine that aren't stock shots or blurry member snapshots, is Betty Jo's husband. I know Leonard and he's a delightful guy and an excellent shooter, but I've never asked him if he gets paid for what he does for Pano. I suspect not, since his day job is that of a neurosurgeon.
I suspect he does it simply for the fun of going on press trips--I stopped considering them fun about halfway through my stint at Car and Driver--and being a Porsche insider. |
The more I'm finding it the less I want to know. The covers are excellent shots BTW but first we (at least I) discover the editor has been there for 38 years- no answers as to why so long; now we find out it's a husband and wife deal (nothing inherently wrong with that but it sure isn't obvious and should be for the sake of journalistic integrity), third, the husband goes on the press trips too- (but they seem to use the stock photos so why does he?). Who else goes? Who pays for the press trips?
If it's Porsche do they retain editorial control over the magazine? Would Porsche continue to pay for the trips if the editor comes back and pronounces the Panamera an ugly POS? If it's the club who goes or who decides who goes? I'm gonna stop now....but this is starting to sound like an excellent magazine article for someone. But not in a good way. |
I suspect a number of what you think are stock shots are actually by Leonard.
And of course Porsche pays for the press trips, which typically consist of business-class airfare, sometimes first and never coach unless it's a relatively short domestic trip--New York to Road Atlanta, say--and top-shelf accommodations. No car magazine on earth pays its own way on press trips. Even such sacrosanct media as the New York Times and Wall Street Journal don't pay--I know because I've been on trips with their writers--but their excuse is that the writers are freelancers, not employees. Doesn't work for me at Conde Nast Traveler, though, since my contract says no freebies of any sort, not even a meal. I suspect PCNA thinks of PCA as an informal arm of its marketing department, else they wouldn't have permission to use Porsche logos and the like. |
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We have the same issue in the local chapter. It's absolutely taboo to criticize Porsche or any Porsche corporate policies, because they are big sponsors and advertisers in the local publication and website etc.—so the conflict of interest is built in. You don't bite the hand that feeds you right? It's not nice. Personally, I can live with this, and don't think it is a big deal. I mean the benefit of corporate sponsorship/support in a one-marque car club probably outweighs the cost of keeping the members slightly muzzled. At least in my view. There are, after all, lots of other forums where marque-enthusiasts can vent their views on the corporate parent. (This board for example.) |
A nice perk for certain. I realized they were paid for commercial magazines (they even show the same photos on occassion) but didn't realize it was done for Panorama. Maybe I'm naive but I think 38 years of press junkets by the same company would have an influence on one's journalistic, ahem, viewpoint. Certainly seems to be the case here...
I wonder how long Roundel's editors have been around and why they seem to be able to speak so freely when Pano's can't (or won't). I presume BMW pays for their junkets too. Maybe BMW realizes that criticism of their car or company is good for them and ought to be up front where owners and members can see it? I recall that magazine was very critical of I Drive- and it has improved so much there are no more (or very few) complaints. |
"We have the same issue in the local chapter. It's absolutely taboo to criticize Porsche or any Porsche corporate policies, because they are big sponsors and advertisers in the local publication and website etc.—so the conflict of interest is built in. You don't bite the hand that feeds you right? It's not nice."
We don't have that in our chapter. Thank goodness. Most members (including me) rarely have much to say that's critical of Porsche. But we can da*n sure say it if we want to. I'd leave the club if that were the case and suspect a lot of others would as well. |
So Pano is one rich couple's trip through the Porsche world.
Nice. Now i understand why it reads the way it does. Cairns is right, if decision makers are too pussified to get the right people involved then term limits will do it for them. |
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It's not just that the Roundel writers will criticize BMW when it is deserved, although that's a big part of it (Pano being the de facto marketing dept for PCNA is nauseating and makes it so predictable). The content is more varied, the writers are far more skilled and entertaining (and they aren't all the same in tone, content and style), the coverage of cars is better, etc. etc. etc. In sum, it's just a much more entertaining read. Panorama has become INCREDIBLY stale. They could probably republish their February edition again in November, and most people probably wouldn't even notice. They haven't changed their format in years, including things that have become completely outdated (like the little tech letters to the editors, which was great pre-Internet, but is really pretty useless now. You don't need to wait a month for a magazine to figure out how to get into the trunk of your Boxster when the battery dies, etc.). |
Oh, and an addendum to my post above, after re-reading cairn's post:
Leonard Turner is the person who goes on Porsche press trips, not Betty Jo. If she has ever been on one, I haven't met her in 25 years of doing Porsche trips. Leonard takes the photos and writes the road tests. |
The Mercedes magazine The Star was for years edited and produced by a frequent Pelican poster and longtime Porsche (and Mercedes) owner, Frank Barrett. fbarrett I think his tag is. Good friend of Grady Clay's.
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Formerly,
Thanks for clarification but I still think something's rotten in Denmark. As I stated before Panorama should be the voice of the club- not the company. At any rate are you the guy who writes the articles in Conde Nast where they're driving the new Lexus in Singapore or Mustang V8 in Las Vegas? I cancelled Conde Nast (the advertising alone weighed 85 pounds) but always enjoyed those. |
I've owned Porsches for 30 years..
Yet I've only been a PCA member for 11 years now... I was put off, when I wanted to join in 1978 when I bought my first 911... I then joined SCCA, and learned how to drive the car on a racetrack.. I joined PCA when I found out the local region was doing DEs and the club racing program was starting...To this day I instruct for other car clubs, as well as PCA region... I renew my member ship every year...possibly out of habit. Quote:
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The original post was about the club so I'll comment on that. Here in Phoenix, David Hobbs is scheduled to speak at an anniversary dinner event that I would really love to attend - simply to listen to David Hobbs. Sixty five dollars a plate ($130.00 for the wife and I) and semi formal/cocktail attire - No longer interested. Why can't I go and see David Hobbs speak in a more casual atmosphere, this is about the cars (and past racing tales), isn't it?
As for the magazine, I'd have to agree with the Roundal comments. I am a BMW club member and Roundel is far and away the better rag with Mike Miller and the tech notes on top. Mike Miller will tell it like it is and criticize BMW where it is deserved. It surprises me because you see plenty of BMW company ads in the magazine so they must (hopefully) read his remarks. |
Renewed and will keep renewing as I participate in numerous track events and attend other PCA functions also. It's a great organization to be part of!
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cairns, that's me, the Great Driver. I'm trying to fob the gig off on my daughter Brook, a Condescending Traveler editor whose Lime Rock lap times are better than mine anyway. We just did one together--Nissan GT-R in Nevada.
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David Hobbs, wow! too bad it's not over beers and pizza at the local tavern. THAT i'd pay $65 for!!!!!
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Are you aware of what David charges for these appearances, which for him are his work? Not fun. He has no interest in beer and pizza.
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If you're not into DE's and track days, there is no reason to be a PCA member. If it comes with your local dues, then so much the better. I see no reason to join for just a magazine.
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c'mon steve tell him i'll buy the pizza and split the beer with him. i mean what more can a guy ask for!
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