If PCA had been smart, it would have hired Frank to publish PANO...

As far as Pano....articles on actual club members would be nice.
The last couple of articles that I though were worth anything were the one on the two ladies and their dad's car and the profiles of a bunch of club racers at VIR.

There are some really interesting folks in the club doing interesting things of all calibers, but we get article after article on new stuff ... which I can't afford. LOL

on the other hand the classifieds are a good resource. found my car there and suspect good deals surface there regularly.

[QUOTE=Formerly Steve Wilkinson: Are you aware of what David charges for these appearances, which for him are his work? Not fun. He has no interest in beer and pizza.


I think David Hobbs does okay, he owns a BMW and Honda dealership as well as his Speed TV gig.

I have a friend who is a world renowned botanist, he is asked to give lectures all over the world. In return he is usually paid airfare and hotel but not a whole lot else. While David Hobbs may be getting compensation for his appearance, I would think that the opportunity to get out of frigid Ohio and spend a couple of days at a swank Scottsdale resort (where the PCA dinner is being held) would be enough of an enticement.

Then again, I've never met David Hobbs so what do I know. My original point being that I wish that the PCA event didn't have to be such a high-dollar, society-type affair. I don't mind paying for the opportunity to attend I just wish it was a little more relaxed.

See my signature

No membership here, after quitting PCA driving events. Panorama is a waste of glossy paper.

George

Not only does Porsche pay for someone from Panorama to go to something like a new model introduction, but they pay for someone from Car and Driver to go, and Excellence, and Automobile, and 911 and Porsche World, and Auto Motor und Sport, and almost every other automotive magazine you can think of. Business-class airfare, lodging, food, booze - the whole shootin' match. They even pick you up at the airport in a shiny new Cayenne Turbo S or something... That is the way it has always been, and that is, for the foreseeable future, the way it will always be.

Despite the inherent potential conflict of interest in the system, I assure that the editor of Car and Driver would argue that Porsche doesn't hold any substantial "editorial control" over their book. So the reason that Panorama reads like a fawning mouthpiece for the factory is the editor's own choice, not something handed down from Porsche, and I think the increased (but hardly total) impartiality of a magazine like Roundel bears that out.

Incidentally, I was talking to one of the writers for Roundel this evening and mentioned this string. I told them Pelican people like Roundel better because "instead of just printing something that reads like a press release for the new Cayman, they will do something like honestly compare a new BMW Z4 M Coupe with a Cayman S."

He laughed and replied: "Funny you should use that as an example. I've pitched that idea to the editor of Roundel several times and he's scuttled it repeatedly, saying that every comparison he's seen has the Cayman coming out solidly on top."

So I guess they're not THAT impartial... LOL

1. Did not renew.
2. Plan on one year away from track events, too many toys, a new house, and a ton of home improvements this past year. Time to save a little.
3. Excellence is like reading a factory brochure. Not biased enough. Again, the factory mag is Christophorus, they (excellence) needs to learn that.
4 Sand Man said it best in his signature. pasted below.

"Decided not to renew my PCA membership after hearing some PCA Boxster pretty boyz discuss how a 356 was nothing more than a VW. I don't need a club to get my fingernails dirty...not to mention, wine and cheese doesn't always agree with me."

Maybe again in the future. Just for track days.

"Not only does Porsche pay for someone from Panorama to go to something like a new model introduction, but they pay for someone from Car and Driver to go, and Excellence, and Automobile, and 911 and Porsche World, and Auto Motor und Sport, and almost every other automotive magazine you can think of. Business-class airfare, lodging, food, booze - the whole shootin' match. They even pick you up at the airport in a shiny new Cayenne Turbo S or something... That is the way it has always been, and that is, for the foreseeable future, the way it will always be.

Despite the inherent potential conflict of interest in the system, I assure that the editor of Car and Driver would argue that Porsche doesn't hold any substantial "editorial control" over their book. So the reason that Panorama reads like a fawning mouthpiece for the factory is the editor's own choice, not something handed down from Porsche, and I think the increased (but hardly total) impartiality of a magazine like Roundel bears that out."

I understand and agree. I think I've said all I can on the subject- the officers can fix it or not. And they'll have all the help that I can provide if they want it. At the least I now know why it's so bad.:(

BTW I recall reading a Cayman S-Z4M Coupe test in Roundel about a year ago so it may have already been done. As I recall the Cayman did come out on top in most categories, particularly handling, braking, interior and looks. The Z4 was perceived to have the better engine, had better straight line speed and offered a much lower price. It's been a while so perhaps I didn't read it in Roundel.

Hired? It is a volunteer position as are all the PCA positions with the exception of 2.

Stu

Betty Jo does Pano voluntarily and has done so for 38 years???? I doubt it.

If they aren't paying positions, they should be. It would bring a higher standard to the book. BMW's Roundel is definitely NOT a volunteer gig, that's for sure. As I mentioned earlier, they even pay writers.

Well...if Betty Jo isn't being paid (I doubt she is) she and her husband are certainly getting a lot of perks at the expense of the membership. Not that I mind that- if you're a dedicated volunteer you should definitely have your own costs covered and receive some reward. We do it locally and I'm sure its done nationally.

But Betty and relatives have been publishing a magazine that has little to no real content, virtually ignores membership views and primarily serves as a slathering high school press release for a very wealthy company and they've been doing it for 38 freaking years. I don't know about anyone else but that number still astounds me.

When are we going to change the horses? 40 years? 50? 60? Will we ever let someone else have a shot at it or is this just up to Betty Jo?

If we can't change the editors by finding a qualified volunteer I'd much rather see us hire professionals and draw a clear line. I'd gladly pay more in dues for a quality publication and would bet a lot of others would too- not to mention membership retention would go up, we could attract higher advertising revenues and recoup those expenses. I would bet the the demographics on our members are outstanding- and that there are dozens of advertisers (just counting the As we could go from American Express to Apple) who would love to have a chance to attract our members- so long as we published quality.

I thought I'd said enough- but everytime I think about this I get more PO'd. The dissatisfaction with Panorama is palpable and has been ignored for far too long. I'm gonna start a campaign- Betty Jo has got to go.

There are several paid positions in PCA. Executive Director, Finance Manager, Panorama Editor and Club Race Secretary/Program Coordinator as well as some full and part time employees that keep the day to day operations of the national office working. A total of less than ten full and part time employees for the whole club. The rest of us are volunteers. Pretty impressive when you compare the size of our club with others around the world. A true testament to the enthusiasm and dedication of our members.

PLEASE send me feedback on Panorama or any other part of the club. Email is the easiest... carrerados@aol.com I can do alot with MEMBER feedback. Ranting and venting on a forum is great, but I can go alot more with an email or letter.

Manny Alban
PCA Vice President

That's great. I sincerely don't mean her or her husband any disrespect. But there are thousands of people across the country who donate (literally tirelessly) to the Club- and have for almost as many years. They are NOT afforded 38 years of tenure with no questions asked.

And to put it more bluntly- so what? Let's bring fresh blood and fresh perspective to the publication that should represent all PCA members and not just them. It IS a tired redundant mouthpiece for Porsche and (from the answers I've seen here) their own personal views. It's long past time for a change.

Thank her and her husband, provide them whatever reward we can that reflects their dedication. But for crying out loud give somebody else a shot and do what we can to actually improve Panorama.

I think Cairns hits the nail on the head. It's not a personal attack. Much love to BJT. Much respect. But let's go in a different direction.

This is, in my humble opinion, the PRECISE reason the Editor of Panorama should be a paid position. Even if it's just a rather small amount of money, it makes the Editor instantly more accountable for the output. When someone is doing something for free, how accountable can you hold them? It becomes sticky to make changes and grow.

But that's just my $0.02.

Nice to see a national board member of PCA here!
Panorama is an OK mag but caters to the wine and cheese/clean finger nail crowd IMO

Btw: I voted for you Manny and am wondering how your Rainbow Wonder bread 911 is holding up these days?
Beautiful car, you should post a few pics of it here on PP! If you have not done so already?

back on topic, I was hesitant to renew as I got tired of how the club was running in my region, but since I was moving to Cali I figured I could find a better region here, so I renewed. Only problem now is figuring out which one to transfer to...

WOW! I did not know that! I thought you were STUCK in your geographical region.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the great folks in our region, but as others have said, its a "wine & cheeser" for the most part. No driving activity in 2 months now. Yeah, I know....."It's the people", but the wife & I are "driving oriented" and sometimes just have to take our 911's out by ourselves. We've even had people turn around on nice Saturday runs because of some issues of "driving in rain". We're looking for a more "car-oriented" area, and it looks as if we might have to head up into the Ozarks.

Thanks for the support. The bread wagon C2 is doing really well. She's sitting in the garage waiting patiently for March 13th when I take her down to VIR for the Zone 2 DE. I'm the registrar again this year and the turnout is incredible. I thought it would be the other way around with the economy, but I was wrong. What's more, the vast majority are late model cars. My 1990 911 is going to look like an antique :)

Manny while you're here do you know of any HPDC's in MD, NJ, WV or Va that are scheduled AFTER April 15?

I let my PCA membership lapse years ago while I was in college, then my mechanic was incensed when he found out I wasn't a member a few years ago and bought me a year's membership. I've been renewing ever since. The access to autocross, even if I don't use it, seems worthwhile. The other part for me is supporting an entity that supports the cars I am interested in in a way nothing else does. Libraries of information, the facilitation of concours (now thankfully with a preservation class that removes all guilt while modifying and putting miles on my own old Porsche!) and competition. In light of PCA's support of the marque, the fee seems minimal.

I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on Pano's quality or scope, but I see a lot of people expressing views (some valid!) without much knowledge. Not that *that* happens online very often. :rolleyes:

So, a few data points:

1. Betty Jo does far more than merely edit the book. She also, IIRC, sells the ads. i.e., she's doing the work of two full-time people and has been for 38 years. Given how quickly I must rush to get Excellence out the door 9 times a year (ed only, we've got an ad director and coordinator), I find that rather amazing. Yes, her edit package is small, but it's impressive given the above. Ed budget is the next thing to look at.

2. TRUE: press trips can look posh from the sidelines. As Formerly Steve rightly points out, international travel is business class, and, yep, it IS pretty comfy. You are, however, usually greeted by a bus. Domestic travel, at least with Porsche, is coach. The fact Porsche pays *IS* an issue, but by those standards, the only true automotive journalism happens in CR, and I doubt many (any?) are willing to pay the cost of having all magazines go that route. And, next: do you eliminate press cars? How then would we have learned that the 997 Turbo's chassis is awful/way too soft? Or that early eGas and early 997 PASM had issues? Hopefully, that info helps new Porsche buyers AND enthusiasts down the road who will look at the cars as used cars. I know many Pelicanites say they don't care about the new stuff, but many other readers do, and there is a case to be made for creating records for the future.

3. FALSE: Press trips are lavish picnics and/or fun runs. The reality is that you're in transit for 30-50 hours and on the ground for about 30-40 hours. Those are real numbers. They're filled with sleep deprivation, press conferences, and a drive on roads you don't know with a passenger you may or may not like and who may or may not kill/maim you. Sometimes, the food is good. Sometimes, it's a weird five-course meal in foams and pates and you'll be eating raisins and a Euro Snickers in your room for dinner. For me, the upside comes when you meet a Porsche engineer, racer, or longtime acquaintance who is a real enthusiast, and there are still some. But there are few serious or even fun car enthusiasts left in the media. The rest seem to be in it either for a job or the perks, but I can't for the life of me figure the latter out -- unless they don't like to be at home. Especially given the sacrifice in what you could be making in another industry...


I think discussion (and especially constructive criticism!) is good. I've picked up a few ideas and areas for improvement myself here. And I commend Manny for coming in to address the issue, and agree that a better idea is for people to send him letters and emails. I think people who AREN'T members are just as important, especially if they once were. But while I think it's best that I remain neutral on Pano, I hate to see someone's work torn down in a nasty, public manner -- especially when it's done from a limited perspective. I can tell you from personal experience that it hurts, and it seems to me that it goes against the rules of this forum as stated. As always, if we want change, we should go about it constructively. Manny has provided that route.

Respectfully,

pete

Good post, Pete.

I may have to send you a note on another PCA subject Manny.

All good points, Pete. Although there are varying degrees of venom on here, I don't get the impression people are tearing anyone down PERSONALLY. Just the work. And although I agree that it would probably be pretty painful to hear, such (often rather brutal) criticism comes with the territory. Moreover, it serves a valuable purpose.

This is a forum of true Porsche fanatics, who take the cars and the history of the marque very seriously. And I think what everyone is venting about is a broadly held feeling feeling that Panorama doesn't adequately reflect the club, the marque, or the Porsche owners who feel so passionately about their cars. And, quite frankly, it should.

So I agree - no one should rip anyone PERSONALLY. And people should exercise every possible avenue to bring about the changes they feel should be made to the magazine. But I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with voicing opinions on the subject in a relatively strong and passionate way, even if they ultimately seem to be directed at one or two people.

Judging by the posts on here, the dissatisfaction has been building for some time and it's actually costing the club members. That's a fairly serious cocktail that I think the club would want to know about, even if it seems rather brutal.

I'm trackin' with you.

The distinction for me comes when people get stereotyped ("rich people" vs. those who "get their hands dirty") or when the discussion gets into motive/bias/etc. without knowing the people involved or the full picture.

Some, however, noted what they felt is wrong with the product and suggested possible changes/fixes. I feel those were, by far, the most useful posts.

pete

Pano reads like it was written by the wine and cheese crowd during a luncheon at a country club.

Sorry but it is what it is.

Those of us who are members PAY for this. It may come off as harsh but i can think of no more concise way to describe the flavor of the magazine as it currently exists. There is no soul. When i read your latest issue of Excellence I just got more and more pissed about the salt all over the roads. Man I was fired up to get out there and beat on my baby!!! In contrast i get through a few pages of Pano and i have zero feeling.

And for the record i LOVES ME SOME WINE!

Well, the magazine can't be a manual for how to rebuild your 915 gearbox and such every month. I'm not sure what technically makes someone a member of the "wine and cheese crowd," but regardless, they are likely a substantial part of the club and not one we should be completely dismissive of. I have things I like to do with my car and they may be different from what someone else likes to do with theirs. That's not to be ridiculed - it's to be championed. In theory, it's what makes the club rich and valuable.

We can't forget that the magazine has to represent EVERYONE in the club - not just you. Or me. Or that guy over there in the "wine and cheese crowd." It has to reflect everyone. That's uniquely tough to do.

I hope that whatever changes are made in the future, it evolves into something that more people are happy with. Because it really SHOULD be an excellent magazine. It really should. We're a big club. An established club. Our magazine should be pretty top-flight.

Paul we all know what is meant by 'wine and cheese crowd'.

But yes, i certainly agree the magazine should not serve just ONE group.

It currently does.

I'm not nearly as careful with my words as Cairns (in fact is this guy a writer?) but the gist is, i think, the same.

I know, amigo. I was trying to politely say that just because the "wine and cheese crowd" likes different things about the club and enjoys different aspects of it, they're not subhuman. They are Porsche owners and lovers like the rest of us. I say the more the merrier.

But I hear you man. We're on the same page.

Manny I e-mailed you.

I want everyone on here to know that I meant absolutely no disrespect to Betty Jo or anyone involved in publishing Panorama.

Frankly, I don't think anyone else did either. The issue is pretty important to some of us and no one is perfect at expressing their feelings. Other than here I've never heard opinions of Panorama except privately- there wasn't a forum that encouraged disusscion so I think emotions kind of spilled out.

just let it out man....it's okay.