Winter Car? Or All in One SUV

[RWebb]

Oddly enuff, Paul & I seem to sometimes lead parallel lives. He is searching for a sports or muscle car after de-911'ing himself (see e.g No 370 Z for me).

And I am looking to get rid of my Honda Pilot when the lease runs out in a month or two.

What I REALLY want is an updated and slightly smaller version of the VW Westie Vanagon. The Westie is the poptop (pivot top) camper version. I wanted - and thought VW was going to make - a new version with modern safety features, decent passing performance, and maybe even hybrid or other low pollution, high mileage features (like a diesel for example - we can get real biodiesel here). But they didn't and are just shilling for Chrysler with their new mini-vans.

So I've used SUVs while waiting for them to come out with something -- Toyota 4Runner, then a Ford Exploder, a MB ML-450, and then two Pilot leases (2003 & 2006).

The Basic Decision:
I could just lease a new Pilot. But they seem shorter in the cargo area, which makes it even harder to sleep in the back, and it isn't that great anyway. The floor is finally flat tho.

Here's what I need:
Off-road -- the Pilot is at the very edge of my "off-road" ability requirement. It needs to be able to get in and out of various places using 2-track "roads", fire roads, etc. It has 8" of ground clearance, and I figure that is a minimum. The Lexus RX350 only has 7".

Snowy Road Abilities -- I need to get to my backcountry skiing spots in winter. The electronic ESP stuff works great for this. The Benz SUVs seem better to me than the 2 Pilots I've leased, but the Pilots are fine too.

Hauling Ability -- I need to haul lumber, plywood, drywall, dirt, sand, gravel, flagstone... periodically. I don't need to haul sheets of plywood often, but the Pilot can take them flat with a couple feet hanging out the back. Nice to avoid using a roof rack - esp. when it's raining (and it rains all winter).


Car Camping -- I need to sleep in it for summer car camping (the Pilot is nowhere near as good as a VW Vanagon Westie would be). I like to just take off in the summer whenever I feel like it and roam around on the back roads of the West. With the 911 the driving is great, but I have to tent camp. That means no camping in Grizzly country; and also no canvas addons to a 4x4 pickup. With a Westie or the MB or Pilot SUVs (to a lesser extent) I can just stop and crawl int he back to snooze. And this may force me to have 2 vehicles instead of just one.

It gets me up into the mtns. in winter so I can backcountry ski.
Has a particle filter for dust on those desert 2-track roads, gravel, and smoke in the Valley from field burning.



Other Good things:
- Dogmobile Issues -- Low Dog Jump In/Out Height -- the Pilot's floor is too high for my Golden to jump out of w/o hurting her legs. Lower is better as lifting her down to the ground gets old after a while.

- Sunroof

- Particle Filter for Cabin Air - these things are great and keep out pollen and dust. My summer driving routes for this type of vehicle are way dusty.

- Heated seats - yeh, I'm gittin' old and these are fun, esp. if you open up the sunroof to watch the stars on a winter drive.

A major problem with having 2 vehicles (besides the 911) is that I live in a compact neighborhood with little street parking and not much ability to park 2 cars on my property (the 911 likes its garage).

=========================================

If I replace the Pilot then what single vehicle would I get?

'09 Toyota Highlander - way too short to sleep in. Too bad 'cuz they have hybrids.

'09 Pilot -- seems shorter in the cargo bed than my '06 model (which was not too great for sleeping in anyway); the '09 has a 72" long cargo bed. It is much flatter now, so that is good. Nicer interior with more cubbies for crap, and an iphone input.

'keep the '06 Pilot - I have to put a plywood sheet in the back to sleep in it as the floor slant differently. This means I can't just flip the back seats up and carry 4 people. The lease buyout is way too high, but I bet they'd negotiate down...

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Supposing I did bifurcate my Pilot - I could get a used Subaru Outback (which has a tad more ground clearance than the Legacy Wagon) for a pretty decent price. Then, I'd have a winter car and could look around for a used Westie. Any thoughts on which ones are the "best" years to buy? It seems they have been real late in putting ESC on them...

But any 2 car solution is a hassle re driving them enuff to keep the cars "happy." And then there is the parking hassle here.

Lexus RX350 - only 7" ground clearance. Deal killer I think. Would make a real nice hwy cruiser for trips where I don't want to take the 911 and be a good winter car tho. Could either lease a new hybrid one or maybe buy a used one.

Subaru Forester - anybody know anything about these?

- BMW x__ station wagon. I wonder how reliable these ar, or if I could even find one where I live...

Generally:
- I don't care about "Image" at all.
- Lower or same lease payments would be important. Just like Serena, I am cutting back.
- I set up my life so I don't have to commute much - and can commute by bike too. So gas costs are not an issue -- until it gets over $/gallon again.
- For running errands (like weird small metric parts of the 911), a smaller vehicle than the Pilot would be real nice to have.
- same on an auto trans. - nice for city driving.
- I live in a rel. isolated small city, so small volume items (like that AWD BMW wagon) can be hard to find used. My issues re that are much broader than Paul's tho. I can go to Portland if I have to to buy a used car.

[jyl]

I think you should find yourself a VW Vanagon Syncro (4x4).

Don't know first-hand about the off-roading ability but surely good enough for jeep tracks and fire roads. Should be fine in snow w/ right tires. Holds plywood sheets, and stuff up to 12 feet long. Particle filter, heated seats, sunroof, ESP - I guess you can add a bit of that, and will have to be a man and cope w/out the rest. (Where do you live, Beverly Hills?)

Then kit it out for camping - it should already have the Z-bed (rear bench that folds flat into double bed). Don't need the full Westy camping interior, make (or have a cabinet maker do) a minimalist (and removable) kitchen box. Don't need the pop-top, though it is a nice-to-have.

If you really want to, buy a junk Westy and transplant the cabinetry and pop-top. But you'll lose some hauling room.

Main weakness, when you have done all that, is that the Vanagon is pretty gutless. An engine transplant solves that, and the Subaru-Vanagon guys seem to have it all figured out, there are detailed instructions and kits w/ all the needed adapter parts to get a 150HP Vanagon. Personally, I just take my time. After all, you have a 911.

That's my vote. Go to thesamba.com and ask in the Vanagon forum for more (and more informed) advice.

Specs http://www.vanagon.com/syncros/technica/car-and-driver/index.html says 8.3" ground clearance.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Probably too big but a full size Suburban/Tahoe is a great vehicle for sleeping in with the back seats out. I had a 99 for years that was bullet proof and you can get them for next to nothing. Meets your hauling, ground clearance, etc. needs but obviously gets crappy mileage. You can occasionally find a diesel version of the pre 2000 models but they are spendy.

[deanp]

I know someone that is rough on vehicles that had a Subaru Forester, lots of room inside, but not sure it is enough for sleeping (maybe fetal position). Know for sure it won;t swallow a 4x8 sheet of plywood. It chewed up a couple rear wheel bearings on one side, other than that was problem free. Not sure if they determined why it ate the bearings.

Maybe look at the Volvo XC70? Looks a bit longer in the cargo area than the Forester and has 8.3" of ground clearance vs the Forester's 8.7".

[Rot 911]

If it is just you and your dog have you considered a 4x4 pickup truck with a bed topper?

[BGCarrera32]

Supercharged Hummer H2

[RWebb]

thx all...
almost bought a nice-looking Synchro a few years ago -- when the shop looked at it, they said it had $5k in repairs needed right away... -- common issue with them -- very hard to put a Westie camper popup on one that didn't come that way

nice thing re the Westie is you can NOT pop up when in Grizz country -- as I said that rules out the pickup with soft top - so does dust issue

H2's are garbage - just a fake looking GM Suburban or something with no gas mileage -- H1 had real ability

a Subaru Forester would be too short to sleep in - that would be if I also got a Westie.

the Subaru wagon seems more appealing to me than the Subaru Forester tho...

[Tim Hancock]

Might I suggest a nice Audi Allroad.

[pwd72s]

As I said in our emails...get a 1 ton flatbed 4X4...your choice of manufacturer...then take it to a custom camper specialty house & build your own.

BTW, I doubt that thin sheet metal would stop a determined grizzly...

[jyl]

How much are Syncro's in PNW? CL has an ad, hmmm.

Seems even if you paid $8K for one and put $5K into it, you're still 1/2 to 1/3 any new vehicle that would meet your requirements. And none of the vehicles you mention, or that have been suggested so far, can do it all - 4x4, carry 4'x8's, sleep non-fetal, room to sit and cook and move around. Plus the depreciation on a nice syncro isn't likely to be much, not like losing 20% when you drive that new car off the lot.

Dunno, since you want 4x4, hauling big stuff, and camping, hard to see how a 4x4 van doesn't fit the bill.

Oh, that's a thought, are there any other 4x4 vans? Wanna spring for a Sprinter and have a 4x4 drivetrain installed?

The other possibility would be a 4x4 pickup with a short collapsing camper like an Alaskan. http://www.alaskancamper.com/akcmpr.htm Champ on the "off-road" part. But unless you have a place to leave the slide-out camper, no good for hauling. Pickup campers are a pain, I had one on my F250, very little space inside and MPG will be awful. I think I got 8MPG fully loaded.

[pwd72s]

I shouldn't have said "flatbed"...you can order "cab only" truck and pickups, then place whatever you like on the remaining frame.

[VincentVega]

4x4 pickup truck with a bed topper

x2. Extended cab for more interior room, cab out back if you really want to sleep 'inside'.

[jyl]

And finally there's

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Dormobile/pictures12.html

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by jyl

And finally there's

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/Dormobile/pictures12.html

That, I like!

[tc-sacto]

what about a setup like this.


with this tow vehicle:


fun to drive
camp
4x4: but not much ground clearance.
not sure of cargo room
boxser engine

[jyl]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

That, I like!

Old LRs are unstoppable. I had a 61, or was it a 63? Many years ago. Wonderful vehicle. I was really sorry to sell it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I doubt a Forester or BMW wagon has more ground clearance than a Lexus RX. If a Forester fits your needs, they made one with the turbocharged boxer motor. Basically a WRX for lesbians.

Why not a Land Crusier? Big, great towing, incredible off-road, and freakin indestructible.

[RWebb]

hmm, maybe I can pic up some hot lesbians??

The only synchro Westie I've ever found for sale here was 20k and had 5k worth of problems.

nice thing re Subarus is that there are tons of them here -- more of them than Priuses...

anybody know if they have particle filters for the interior? and when they started putting those in?

[RWebb]

"I doubt that thin sheet metal would stop a determined grizzly."

not the issue -- it appears impenetrable to the bear. and, yeh, if one figures out they can just rip thru it, then will be big trouble.

also hard shells are required by NPS for some campgrounds.

[Tobra]

Rather than have the dogs jump in and out of the back, I have them get in through the door, and fold the seat bottom forward so they have a lower area to jump into and out of the car. You can also get a ramp so they can get in and out more easily