Hardwood floors questions...

KFC911 · 02-05-2009, 06:55 AM

I'm going to install some pretty soon, and am seeking feedback from you guys/gals. I think I want to go with solid, prefinished, 3/4" x 2 1/4", Oak (maybe "Toffee" or "Mocha" - it varies by brand)) and will staple it down (better than nailed I assume) above a crawl space. Any pointers or caveats that I should be aware of? I plan to buy a flooring stapler rather than rent...is something like a Bostitch the way to go, or will a less expensive brand (i.e. Harbor Freight) be OK for an occasional DIY'er? Where is a good place to source the flooring, Lumber Liquidators, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. or should I seek out a flooring specialist? Are most good brand names basically the same, or do you "get what you pay for" (i.e longer lengths, etc.)? For the floor itself, are the micro-beveled edges (some bevel the ends too) the way to go, or not? I've done a couple of laminate installations (for other folks) so I'm not a total novice, but just wanted to ask the braintrust before I drop the coin on this project. Thanks in advance for any advice you might have!

mudman · 02-05-2009, 06:59 AM

Keith,
I love tools as much as the next guy, but a nice flooring stapler is really good for only flooring, and the cheap ones really suck. I would ask any handy type friends if they have one to borrow.

For sourcing the material spend some time checking all the usual suspects, some bargains can be found in surprising places nowadays.

mudman · 02-05-2009, 07:03 AM

Oh, on the beveled edges: your room and lighting and taste should determine this. With the wrong lighting (windows, fixtures) the beveled edges can look ultra lame, cheap. The contrary can be true, too. The direction you orient the material affects this greatly too.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

What's wrong with using tongue-and-groove planking that's nailed down?

Hugh R · 02-05-2009, 08:59 AM

Before you settle on the 3/4" stuff, check your clearances on the bottom of your doors, dishwasher, refrigerator, and trash compactor to make sure they'll still fit in with the increased floor elevation! For that matter check regardless of what you're going to use.

turbo6bar · 02-05-2009, 09:15 AM

Buy the better stapler and resell on eBay or buy a like new unit from eBay from someone who has DIYing one job. Another nice tool is a jamb/undercut saw, but if you have few doorways, a quality pull saw will do the same job with a bit more muscle. Crain makes excellent jamb saws.

If the lumber industry is like TN, you should find a local company that can provide raw tongue-and-groove material in any species (unfinished or prefinished).

Be cautious of humidity issues in your crawl space. You don't want your hard work to be ruined by pre-existing conditions.

Dave L · 02-05-2009, 09:23 AM

I installed maple in the kitchen of my previous house, a 1950's bugalow. Because of the harness of the maple and the original wood (not OSB or Ply) subfloor I really had to pound in the staples and had to come back with a hammer and nail setter to drive most of them in all the way. Perhaps I was just a wimp but I would go with an air compressor driven one next time.

I wouldnt bother buying a flooring stapler unless you plan to do a lot of hardwood, I bet the rental ones are proffessional grade and should make the job easier.

Micro beveled flooring is what I used but be sure to take a box appart at the store to check the consitency, color, and length of the boards.

trekkor · 02-05-2009, 09:37 AM

Rent the staple/nail gun. Bostich. Hammer actuated.
You will still need to 'top nail' the boards near walls.

Bring the wood into the house for a couple of weeks to acclimate it prior to installation.

Install a vapor barrier( 15# felt ) over the subfloor after you level the subfloor.
With prefinished wood, you do not benefit from the sanding process to get rid of humps.

KT

Dottore · 02-05-2009, 10:59 AM

Not to hijack—but what all should go into the sub-floor?

I ask because I had a hardwood floor installed in my basement, and the hardwood is always ice-cold to the touch—even when the room is completely warm. (This makes for very cold feet.) I have the distinct impression something was left out.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

What trekkor said regarding letting the wood sit is very good advice - the closer the moisture content of the wood is to the actual environment it's installed in at the time of installation, the fewer problems you're going to get with swelling/shrinking of the wood. If you can do this at all, do it. "Best practices".

onewhippedpuppy · 02-05-2009, 11:29 AM

Rent the tools. Most rental stores will have a quality nailer and undercut saw for rent. As suggested before, make you take into account the effect of the floor thickness on your doors, cabinets, etc.

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

Not to hijack—but what all should go into the sub-floor?

I ask because I had a hardwood floor installed in my basement, and the hardwood is always ice-cold to the touch—even when the room is completely warm. (This makes for very cold feet.) I have the distinct impression something was left out.

Solid hardwood flooring should not be installed on on top of a concrete slab in a basement. An engineered hardwood floor would be a better choice. If you didn't install some type of vapor barrier on top of the concrete slab, you will have problem with water vapor entering the hardwood.

As for the coldness of the hardwood floor, a radiant heating system installed underneath the hardwood flooring would have been a good solution.

trekkor · 02-05-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

Not to hijack—but what all should go into the sub-floor?

I ask because I had a hardwood floor installed in my basement, and the hardwood is always ice-cold to the touch—even when the room is completely warm. (This makes for very cold feet.) I have the distinct impression something was left out.

They make some very innovative warm floor systems.
A insulation board is laminated to the slab, followed by the electric heating coils and then the wood.

The wood over the cement is like a permanent heat sink drawing on the 50 degree or so temps of the ground, year around.

KT

KFC911 · 02-05-2009, 11:58 AM

I sure appreciate everyone's advice and input...thank you all and keep 'em coming

!

trekkor · 02-05-2009, 12:13 PM

You can use adhesive instead of nails if you want.

The radiant heat systems are worth the initial investment.

I'm installing a laminate floor in our place next week.
No heat. Floating T&G.

KT

LWJ · 02-05-2009, 12:33 PM

I just put 1000 sq feet into my house of slab oak. I purchased a Bostich MIII New on Ebay for $345 and used it for the job. Sold it effortlessly for $300 when done. It worked MUCH nicer than the rental staplers I have used in the past. Harbor Freight staplers are supposed to be hit and miss. Having a new Bostich was really a joy on a difficult job.

I have only used the traditional slab woods. Oak and maple. No opinons about the prefinished.

Good luck!

Larry

911Rob · 911Rob's Garage

All good posts with a +1 Trekkor's posts

Hardwood:
Make sure the wood is climatized for humidity and temp! (days)
Use a 'hammer' type stapler
Bevelled edges are personal preferance; I prefer not.
Lay out tons of pieces before the actual install and make sure the patterns read well; you dont want one light piece next to all dark, etc.

Engineered Hardwood:
Check into "this" product; much easier to install and performs way better during the 'warranty' periods. Both my BILs are in the biz and I've been around the block too; I would highly recommend this over 'real' hardwood anyday! Have an expert explain the diffs to you. Talk to a guy that has been installing for years and they'll recommend it imo.

Have fun, throw up some pics.

JeffO · 02-05-2009, 02:41 PM

I am also doing hardwood floors. Using a Brazilian hardwood called Koa. It is 60% harder than Oak. The advise I got was staples are twice as likely to give a bad shot having two legs and a bridge to seat flat on the tongue. He said the nails are actually cleats, which unlike a nail have series of sharp extrusions that help in the holding force of the cleat. With the glue that is holding the cleat strip together for loading ease this glue melts by friction also increasing holding power. Remember I am going to use a very hard wood and will be shooting a 2 inch cleat. I have picked out this gun for purchase. It is more money at $ 520 but if you buy the best it is sometimes easier to sell the best. 445AMP Powernail pneumatic can be had on ebay with free shipping.

KFC911 · 02-06-2009, 05:38 AM

Thanks again everyone! Jeff, now you've go me second guessing myself (which is EXACTLY why I posted here...

). I've been doing some reading and have read several "pros" advice regarding staples vs. nails. I'm also familiar with Koa as my master bedroom suite and a couple of other tables are made from it...simply beautiful wood imo. Now I'm thinking about not doing the "same old, same old" that one might see elsewhere. Where did you source your Koa, engineered or solid, what thickness, and how do you like it so far (although it sounds like you may have not installed it yet)?

JeffO · 02-06-2009, 06:01 AM

Hi Keith, I am gearing up to do the Koa in march. Because I have dogs and a high amount of foot traffic where I plan to install I wanted very hard and the Koa fills that requirement. I went lumber liquidaters and picked out a 3/4 x 3 1/4 for $6.19/ sq ft. The 3/4 Koa can be sanded about 4 to 5 times while the engineered can only be sanded twice. The engineered is a thin laminate on top of lower cost substrate. Because of the dogs and higher traffic I expect to sand several times over the years. Bellawood is the manufacturer that I like. They also make the Koa in an engineered form for ontop of a concrete floor ( this is glued naturaly).