2004 Audi A4 value - opinions

[aigel]

Are these cars any good? The 1.8T engine looks to me like it is ok but I sure have heard horror stories on the Audi products of recent years. I had a 93 Passat and that was a nightmare - would I go do it over with an A4?

What irritates me is that the private party / trade in value according to KBB is still around 10-11k on a lower mileage car. Is this true for the "street value" currently? The A4 was a pretty cheap car to start out with - I would have expected a 7k price tag or even less.

Thanks for any input you may have!

Cheers,

George

[Oracle]

As much as I like the style and driving as well as the interior I can't forget the nightmares I had with my A6 tranny.
I still don't understand why Audi can't put timing chains cause at 105k miles the belt needs replacement! and that is an expensive and not DIY friendly job:

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/images//tech/audi/audi.2002.maintenance.sched.pdf

How can they expect any long term ownership of those cars!! The closer they're to that maintenance the prices will just plummet! I thought in Europe people liked/needed to keep their cars for years and years!

[coldstart]

I love the A4 but I wouldn't want to own one. Consumer Reports gives the 2004 A4 almost all "Worse" ratings. Comparatively, the 2008 A4 gets all "Best" ratings and the cars get better every year in between. The A4 has good crash ratings (not that you want to find out).

Anecdote: A co-worker had a 2004 A4 that died in the middle of a funeral procession, had all the coil packs replaced (one at a time! three separate incidents of failure) and later gave up on the car after numerous repairs and traded it in for a 2006 model that didn't fair much better. My mechanic also said that the A4s are repair horrors.

I still love the car and will likely buy a used one given the AWD and how cheap they are used.....other option is a FWD Acura TL (manual) as I can't have another RWD car....

[aigel]

I checked a bit locally and dealers are selling them around 12k. This means that private party should be 9k or less.

Even at that, I would be worried the bottom falls out (loose 4-5k in another 2 years). If I pick a car like this up, I would want to pay rock bottom, drive it for a while and then resell. Not a good idea if prices are falling hard on that particular year / model.

What do you think? Are these stable, price wise? Say if it sells for 9k today, will it sell for more than $6k in 2011 with 15k miles / year added?

George

[Sunroof]

My son bought a 1999 A4 1.8T with 68,000 miles a few years ago from an Audi dealer here in Atlanta. The salesman gave him such an intense rap about the 1.8T dependability and Audi quality he saved himself $600.00 and waived the extended warranty. No less than six weeks later, the check engine and oil lights come on. He went back to Audi and they told him to beat it. They refused to even check it out without paying a fee. It turned out that Audi realized they had a "coking" issue with the engines; however, would not repair the engine unless oil change records for every oil change interval (5K) could be produced from day one. He was not allowed to contact the prior owner and Audi did little to assist. This was very disturbing.

The car was towed to a local Porsche/Audi mechanic and the oil pump replaced and all oil feed lines cleaned as well as the pan and valve train. An inspection of the oil pump showed hardened oil in the pick up that felt like concrete that would not come off unless dynamited!!! The repair was $1,500.00. I ran a thread here last year to vocalize my opinion about the 1.8T "black death". As it turned out, the 1.8T turbine and catalitic converter are too close to the engine and not shielded. The oil will almost boil and then start to clog lines and the pump. Mobil 1 is the oil that according to the Audi dealer MUST BE USED! Audi did a temporary fix with a heat shield at the converter. Obviously many more 1.8Ts get through this mess then others, but your rolling the dice on a used 1.8T.

Aside these issues, the 1.8T is almost guaranteed to blow the oil cooler gasket at the oil filter housing. To R&R the gasket is only $100.00 and should be standard maintenance at the 90K mark according to the mechanic. Another weak link with the engine.

My son's Audi A4 now sits in the parking lot of a local mechanic with a shot engine as a result of the oil filter unit gasket failure. While driving, the loss of oil was not in drips but literally poured out the gasket! He drove too far not knowing all his oil was gone and messed up the bearings and crankshaft. The used engine replacement cost? About 4k with labor. Sadly, he still owes on car.

Granted this can happen to anyone in any car, but what I have witnessed over the years regarding Audi quality, Audi dealership assistance to its customers and its engineering has turned me away from the purchase of an Audi TT I very much admired. Many will praise the 1.8T, but if your a victim, your tune suddenly becomes sour!

For my hard earned money I plan to avoid any Audi in the future.

My 2-cents

Bob

[imcarthur]

We have ’02 A4 Quattro Auto with the 6 cyl engine. I had heard of 1.8T issues so I only shopped 6 cyl. We bought it @ 30K miles with 2 yrs of full warranty left. No real issues except 2 cats have been replaced (one just last week) & one HID igniter. All under warranty. Our full warranty ran out last year & we have spent approx $1K since in stuff. Taillight bulb holder, license plate bulb holder, fluids etc. If I wasn’t lazy it would have been less.

I really like driving it. Much tighter than the 00 323i BMW I just dumped (it was costing $1.5K a year in friggin’ sensors & nonsense stuff). The AWD with snows will take you anywhere.

The only cheesy thing is the rubberized paint on interior switches etc is starting to wear off with age & use. This was also a problem with the BMW.

I plan to trade it next year on another Audi.

Ian

[porkee]

[QUOTE=aigel;4468668]Are these cars any good? The 1.8T engine looks to me like it is ok but I sure have heard horror stories on the Audi products of recent years. I had a 93 Passat and that was a nightmare - would I go do it over with an A4?

I was thinking about replacing the '94 Accord w/176k miles and soon to need a timing belt service, cv joint and has minor rust issues. A local dealer has a really nice looking '99 A4 Avant Quattro 1.8T w/5 speed & triple black. I started doing some research & read a lot of A4 owner surveys on Edmunds or KBB. The stories brought back memories of when I worked for VwoA and now remember telling friends "there great when under warranty but..." I think the Break My Wallet cars are pretty scary too IMO.

[vash]

JP911 and i changed out his timing belt on his 1.8T last year. i found instructions (with pictures) online. it took maybe 5 hours, and we were proceeding very slowly. it is by far the most satifying project i have ever taken on. add time for sparkplug change out also. i think he paid $600 or so for the parts. i dont know what the shop quoted for the job, but he said it was staggering.

i like the A4's. i have a soft spot for sporty wagons.

[Bill Verburg]

Audi may as well close their doors, they make cra* and their ex customers are letting the world know it.

I'll sum up my experience
their cars are cra*
their dealers are arrogant and incompetent, probably crooks too

[Noah930]

I'd never plan on Audi ownership without the safety of a factory warranty. Even then, I'm not so sure I'd spend my hard-earned bucks on their stuff. But I have to admit that they do drive great, and their interiors look cool. But hey, it's your money (and aggravation).

[aigel]

With this bad a reputation, how can the cars still go for 10k+?

I'll pass unless I can get the car dirt cheap, drive for a short time, clean it up and resell.

George

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by aigel

With this bad a reputation, how can the cars still go for 10k+?

I don't understand it, either. Lots of stupid people out there, I suppose. VW resale value is similarly astounding considering the cr@ptastic quality of their products. But they sure look good and are trendy, and that's what sells.

[aigel]

I do not care for the Audi styling. I thought the early 80s were the last good looking cars. I think BMW and even MB look much more palatable.

I thought owning an A4 for a while and sell for what I paid for it would be a fun thing to do. Not so sure any more.

[imcarthur]

Funny, everybody here trashes Audi & coos over BMW. My experience is the opposite. I know that’s not the subject of this thread but . . .

The rear seat areas (under the bench) on my 323i were filled with water. 4” of water! Plugged sunroof drains. Speaking of sunroofs, mine broke & never could be fixed without dismantling the whole interior. A local BMW specialist got it to work but with nice crunchy sounds. The spare tire well? Another water collection area. It had 6” of water in it. Reason? Rear taillight seals that dry out. Who would ever check a rear taillight seal? My steel spare was so rusted I scrapped it when I sold the car. Airbag sensors? They go at a rate of one per year. One year it’s the passenger seat mat – which requires complete dismantling of the seat. Next year it was seatbelt heads at some ridiculous price. The next year it was the retract mechanism on a seatbelt. I started to think the airbag light was just normally on. The code reader gave nonsensical readings so it was no help to a simple DIYer. Then there’s the sub-frame issue. The peeling rubberized paint in the interior. Etc etc . . .

So don’t just point a finger at Audi. BMW’s ain’t vehicular gold either as many would like you to believe. I would think long & hard with a lot of research before I would buy another one. And we all have heard about the Porsche engine problems so the high end isn't immune either.

Ian

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Funny, everybody here trashes Audi & coos over BMW. My experience is the opposite. I know that’s not the subject of this thread but . . .

Probably because my '92 E36 has 292,000 miles on it's original un-opened engine with minimal issues and my '03 330i sport with 80k has been trouble free for the 6 months or so since I have owned it..... My A6 twin turbo Audi had tons of difficult to repair problems starting at 100k when I bought it until about 140k when I dumped it on some poor bastard. I liked driving the Audi, but I did not like the phone calls from my wife when the @#$%$@#@ thing broke down and needed to be towed.

To be fair, I just replaced the ORIGINAL clutch in my '92 BMW at 291,000 miles due to a squeaky throwout bearing (clutch plate still had 1/3 life of wear left). Replacing the clutch in the BMW was a much easier job than replacing the shocks on the Audi.

'92 325 daily driver and my wife's "new" '03 330i sport.





POS '00 Audi A6 2.7 T where it lived on many weekends




A6 all cleaned up prior to selling to the next poor bastard

[imcarthur]

I figured you'd wander in sooner or later, Tim.

I guess this all proves that there are no absolutes in cars. For every good experience, you can find a bad. Sometimes more & sometimes less of one or the other. Admittedly, I am watching the Audi expenses with care as it has become our only car (excluding my 911 which I broadened the insurance coverage on).

Who knows, I may be agreeing with you in 12 months . . .

Ian

[Jim727]

We have a 2003 A4 1.8T Quattro 5-speed. 101,000 miles. Repairs on the car to date: one coil pack, a ventilating system flapper actuator, a parking brake cable replacement and a tail light bulb. Car is comfortable, quiet, and gets 32mpg on the highway; love it. I'm a bit meticulous about maintenance - every 5,000 miles has had oil change with syn (which beats factory recommended), Techron add, and tires rotated. The only deferred maintenance we have on the car is the Bose radio that has a very intermittent problem with the left speaker.

We didn't buy it because of a love affair with Audi, we bought it because it was the only small-displacement turbo awd manual we could find. Next time my checkbook opens is when someone will build/import a small-displacement turbo diesel manual quattro - I'm all over that!

Jim

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

I figured you'd wander in sooner or later, Tim.

I guess this all proves that there are no absolutes in cars. For every good experience, you can find a bad. Sometimes more & sometimes less of one or the other. Admittedly, I am watching the Audi expenses with care as it has become our only car (excluding my 911 which I broadened the insurance coverage on).

Who knows, I may be agreeing with you in 12 months . . .

Ian

You knew I could not help myself.

I do not doubt for a second that there are folks out there who have also had problems with their BMW's. I like german cars and REFUSE to EVER buy a UAW built car EVER again. That said, I have owned Nissan and Toyota trucks over the years and they were both COMPLETELY trouble free. My parents are on their 5th new Honda Accord and have racked many fairly trouble free miles on them. No doubt, the Japanese cars are very good overall. That said, I had a daily driver Civic that I had to put new rings in after 90,000 miles due to oil consumption going up to a couple quarts of oil per week. I do not trash Hondas because of my one bad one I owned, but the Audis are just too d@mn difficult to work on when they break compared to many other cars.

In my 26 years of car ownership (probably 25 cars... most foriegn and most bought used with high mileage), I have NEVER paid a shop to do any serious repairs.... I have done it all from clutches to complete engine rebuilds to accident repair/painting. All but one car were sold in good running condition. The Audi was without a doubt, the most difficult/time consuming to work on. When I buy a car with 100k+ mileage, I expect to have to do some work on it. The Audi has two main issues that make it more difficult than many other comparable cars:

1- The front suspension is prone to problems (multiple control arms that go bad) and it often requires a lot of work to repair.

2- The whole front of the car needs to come off or last least pulled away somewhat to get to any engine components like the alternator, airconditioner, timing belt, power steering pump, etc. (and god help anyone who needs to replace a steering rack or the turbo chargers)

All new cars are more complex than they used to be, but the Audis are just too difficult to work on when they break. For me, that typically meant killing a whole weekend to make a repair that should of only taken an evening.... For those who do not have VagCom software and a lift and do not do their own repairs, it means a labor related higher repair bill at the Audi dealership.

[imcarthur]

I too, have a multitude of car ownership stories. I have owned a vehicle or multiple vehicles continuously since 1973. The list includes some real winners – Chev Vega (my ex’s), AMC Gremlin (cheapest car in 1974), many Fords & GMs, a Chrysler, a mixture of Japanese – Accord, Subaru & a number of Mazdas. Euros are recent with the BMW, the present Audi & the 911. I was a road salesman for 20 years from 77 to 97 & I churned through a new car in 2 years or so. They were mobile offices that were used, abused & discarded. I haven’t done my own service work since the early 70s except for the Porsche so I have seen the inside of many service centers. Of all of those cars, the most reliable was a Chrysler Intrepid followed very closely by a string of Mazdas that my wife drove.

I will be shopping next year & I’ll probably get a 2 year old AWD Euro sedan of some sort which really limits the selection. As for the make, we shall see. But no, I won't work on it. That is the beauty of my vintage 911. It was the last series that was truly a complete DIY imho & when you don't need it as a daily, it's even fun.

Ian

[poorsche930]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

You knew I could not help myself.


1- The front suspension is prone to problems (multiple control arms that go bad) and it often requires a lot of work to repair.

2- The whole front of the car needs to come off or last least pulled away somewhat to get to any engine components like the alternator, airconditioner, timing belt, power steering pump, etc. (and god help anyone who needs to replace a steering rack or the turbo chargers)

All new cars are more complex than they used to be, but the Audis are just too difficult to work on when they break. For me, that typically meant killing a whole weekend to make a repair that should of only taken an evening.... For those who do not have VagCom software and a lift and do not do their own repairs, it means a labor related higher repair bill at the Audi dealership.

I've owned a lot different german cars over the last few years, and found the newer "A series" Audi's to be the absolute worst.

PIA to service, I have a VAG scan tool and access to multiple lifts anytime I want, AND STILL thought it was a b!tch to work on. I even worked at an independant VW/Audi service shop for 4 years.

I used to tell "normal car buyers" you have to love VW/audi if you own one. Be ready for some crazy crap that will only go wrong on YOUR car.

Over engineering at it's best. Multiple control arms (also used on the Bentley GT, all suspension part numbers on the GT start with 8DO an A4 part # prefix), where there are a thousand bushings to wear out.

Weird electrical problems. One customers car would act "funny" because of a bad cluster. Not to mention the coil pack nightmares.

Take a week off of work for any turbo/downpipe install. On the 2.7. 1.8 is ok.

I could go on for days of why I hate Audi.



BUT I still do REALLY want an A8. Thinking of one within the next 6mo. Hope my senses come back soon, or I find a UR-Quattro.......