Continental Flight 3407 crashes in Buffalo, 44 aboard

[fingpilot]

Originally Posted by air-cool-me

The auto lands (2) I have been sitting in the jumpseat for were not very soft...

fingpilot +1

Old, old joke about aircraft maintainence write-ups.

You, as Captain, write up all the squawks at the end of your time in any given airplane. Of course, if the problem is minor, or doesn't occur on every leg, you will wait until home base or Honolulu to write it up, because if it cannot be deferred, or if it cannot be fixed and parts are necessary you are stuck only at home (or HNL). We even have a name for these... pocket squawks.

Whenever I got into a plane, second thing I always looked at was the current squawk sheet that was in every logbook. It tells the status of every previous Captain's complaints with this airplane, and what has been done about it. It was always better than Letterman's show that night. I found one airplane that had crossed the Atlantic 11 days in a row with only one of the two required navigation computers working. That was a biggie. I got out, put my hat back on, and tried to find a replacement airplane for the passengers that night. No Go.

Every crew that had touched that airplane on those 11 crossings got fired. Both seats. The airline was HEAVILY penalized financially. That was in the days when F/O's didn't dispute senior captains.

The old, old joke.

The Captain writes up the 'Autoland' in this aircraft. Says it was 'Very Rough'....

Maintenance checked it out and discovered that 'Autoland' was not installed in that particular aircraft.

My other two favourites?

Captain: Left main tire almost worn out.

Mechanic: Left main tire almost replaced.


Captain: Evidence of oil leak showing on left main landing gear strut.

Mechanic: Evidence removed.



Oh, the first thing I looked at. The guy fueling the plane. If he was too clean, I go teach him how to sump the water out of his truck, and then my plane.

[old man neri]

Originally Posted by fingpilot

I'm not advocating the newbies start at the top. never said that. What I did say was that the guys flying the bottom rung stuff earn every dollar. The guys flying the big and new stuff work just as hard, but have the equiptment and are dealing with a different enviornment, and probably should not be earning more because of that sole reason.

I was asked to retire early because my salary as a senior captain was 7 times that of a newbie F/O. They offered several years salary in stock and incremental pay for me to quit early. Did I F myself? You bet. Stock two years later is worthless, medical insurance (with no claims or health issues for 30 years has become unaffordable (3 premium rate 'adjustments' in 2 years). So now what?

Yep, am looking to work for the Govt. Not gonna happen.

Oh wait! Our newbie president says he and Nancy baby are gonna 'create or save' 3 million jobs this week.

I truly am in luck.

No, I understand what you were saying. I was just being slightly sarcastic in my response. Perhaps it was not evident. I tend to also see the big guys getting paid more not because of what they do but just to be there in case something goes wrong. E.g. the hudson river thing, the glide to the azores...etc. At least that is my thoughts. That being said I have pretty much zero personal experience. It may be that the older guys were infact overpaid the market caught up to that. I remember civilian aviation and all the BS that came with it. It almost seemed that skill had nothing to do with it, it was all about how much money you had or who you were friends with.

I am currently in a sort of different aviation industry. For me I see the guys flying the bigger stuff getting all the glamour and glory while the guys flying the smaller stuff or the helos getting treated almost like second class citizens while they really have a lot of work to do. I actually have to make a decision soon as to whether I want to fly the big stuff or fly helos. I am leaning towards helos (currently, it changes every day) because it's more 'hands and feet' as oppose to being on autopilot at FL350 for 8hrs.

As for working the the Feds, I don't know your current situation (age, status..etc) or the inner workings of your gov't but I do wish you the best of luck.

[old man neri]

Originally Posted by fingpilot

Old, old joke about aircraft maintainence write-ups.



The old, old joke.

A few more

(P) = Problem
(S) = Solution

(P) Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
(S) Almost replaced left inside main tire.

(P) Test flight OK, except autoland very rough.
(S) Autoland not installed on this aircraft.

(P) #2 propeller seeping prop fluid.
(S) #2 propeller seepage normal - #1, #3 and #4 propellers lack normal seepage.

(P) Something loose in cockpit.
(S) Something tightened in cockpit.

(P) Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
(S) Evidence removed.

(P) DME volume unbelievably loud.
(S) Volume set to more believable level.

(P) Dead bugs on windshield.
(S) Live bugs on order.

(P) Autopilot in altitude hold mode produces a 200fpm descent.
(S) Cannot reproduce problem on the ground.

(P) IFF inoperative.
(S) IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

(P) Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
(S) That's what they're there for.

(P) Number three engine missing.
(S) Engine found on right wing after brief search.

(P) Aircraft handles FUNNY.
(S) Aircraft warned to straighten up, "fly right" and be serious.

(P) Target radar hums.
(S) Reprogrammed Target Radar with the words.

[air-cool-me]

Today I spotted a Pelican parts sticker in the crew lounge in atlanta...

[Ray B]

Originally Posted by air-cool-me

Today I spotted a Pelican parts sticker in the crew lounge in atlanta...

I've got one on my bag.

As for pilot pay- it's called paying your dues. Did I work "harder" flying out of Iceland in the winter? Of course. DC-9s, mad dogs-yep it's work. I never resented the ol' man making more because I hoped to be him one day. You are paid for responsibility, not workload. As an international heavy captain I earn every penny-damned strait. In fact, given the pay cuts of the past few years, I'm currently well underpaid IMO.

[Dantilla]

A rule-of-thumb: You are paid in direct proportion to how many people you affect.

A CEO earns lots.
His custodian earns little.
A professional sports figure affects thousands of fans- Earns big bucks.
The waterboy affects only the team members- Paid very little.

A pilot's pay goes up when there are more passengers. That's just the way it works.

[air-cool-me]

looking at pay...


cost of aircraft/ hourly pay:

I am compensated 1$ an hour for every $685,715 to $1,000,000(2006$)(depending on age\hours\type) of value in the aircraft I am flying.


# of people my aircraft holds/ hourly wage

.70 cents per hour/per person for me to fly them around..

weight of the aircaft/hourly wage
I also get 1$ an hour for every 1515lbs I fly..

Years in industry= 2
what about you?

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by Ray B

I've got one on my bag.

As for pilot pay- it's called paying your dues. Did I work "harder" flying out of Iceland in the winter? Of course. DC-9s, mad dogs-yep it's work. I never resented the ol' man making more because I hoped to be him one day. You are paid for responsibility, not workload. As an international heavy captain I earn every penny-damned strait. In fact, given the pay cuts of the past few years, I'm currently well underpaid IMO.

Ray, ive always wondered, is the 76-400 still considered a 'heavy' when the crew isnt on board?

[fingpilot]

Depends....... on the crew.

[Ray B]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Ray, ive always wondered, is the 76-400 still considered a 'heavy' when the crew isnt on board?

Rabbitsnatch,
You have obviously been logging some miles on the big "D". You should see the Intl. cabin staff,,, Don't even get me started. You Fu#Ker. Off to Africa tomorrow.

[Don Plumley]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Ray, ive always wondered, is the 76-400 still considered a 'heavy' when the crew isnt on board?

Seniority is a plus when they drive the bus, can be a negative when the serve the drinks. Sexist I know, but man...my last flight across the pond my shoulder got hit so many times by the rear of one of the FA's pushing the trolley.

[red-beard]

Geez, on Continental, the stews, at least in Business-First, are a minimum of 50 years old.

[Jim727]

Originally Posted by air-cool-me

Today I spotted a Pelican parts sticker in the crew lounge in atlanta...

Have they gotten rid of the black chairs yet?

[Jim727]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

Seniority is a plus when they drive the bus, can be a negative when the serve the drinks. Sexist I know, but man...my last flight across the pond my shoulder got hit so many times by the rear of one of the FA's pushing the trolley.

Stewasaurus Rex.

[widgeon13]

The following quote is from an article on the Buffalo crash and refers to control input for icing on the wings or the tail, for those with experience in icing conditions, is this description correct or just another news report on an aviation accident gone bad. "Pulling the nose up and reducing power"????

"For example, if ice were forming on the wings, the pilot would want to put the plane's nose down and increase power; if the ice were on the tail, the opposite would have been required — pulling the nose up and reducing power."

[air-cool-me]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

"For example, if ice were forming on the wings, the pilot would want to put the plane's nose down and increase power; if the ice were on the tail, the opposite would have been required — pulling the nose up and reducing power."

yes.. kinda.. tailplane stall margin is increased with a reduction in power.. on most* turboprops.

*FAA used a twin otter for testing..

[Ray B]

Originally Posted by Jim727

Have they gotten rid of the black chairs yet?

The black chairs went about the same time we retired the Studebakers- I took one of the last ones to Phoenix to be turned into beer cans. Kinda sad, I loved the 3-holer. The new and improved chairs are blue. We got them in lieu of a retirement.

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

The following quote is from an article on the Buffalo crash and refers to control input for icing on the wings or the tail, for those with experience in icing conditions, is this description correct or just another news report on an aviation accident gone bad. "Pulling the nose up and reducing power"????

"For example, if ice were forming on the wings, the pilot would want to put the plane's nose down and increase power; if the ice were on the tail, the opposite would have been required — pulling the nose up and reducing power."

That NASA video in the previous link explains it very nicely.

[BlueSideUp]

I have always thought of the initial low pay in aviation (instructing or probationary) was basically paying your dues for later. Unfortunately management and the industry has managed to take away "later". As Sully said in his interview, you will find pilots with less and less equity in their bank of experience in the future. It's just not worth it for new people unless they are purely driven by a passion for aviation. At some point you have to pay the bills.

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by rick-l

That NASA video in the previous link explains it very nicely.

Thanks, I hadn't watched the video but it makes it very clear what can happen and very little hope for recovery w/o prior knowledge of those conditions.