How come electric cars have to be made by the big 3?

rick-l · 01-16-2009, 07:28 AM

Why hasn't a battery company taken the challenge?
Why hasn't an electric motor company taken the challenge?
Why hasn't a group of investors specked out a battery and a motor and stuck it in a chassis manufactured in China?
What happened to entrepreneurs?

m21sniper · 01-16-2009, 07:29 AM

Some entrepreneurs have done just that. Try a google search for electric car.

Heel n Toe · 01-16-2009, 07:31 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car

rick-l · 01-16-2009, 07:32 AM

You mean the car made from laptop batteries? I mean an effort where they take some risks and spend some serious money.

onewhippedpuppy · 01-16-2009, 07:33 AM

Ever hear of the Tesla?

Not to mention that Toyota is building a plug-in Prius that should be for sale within a few years. Honda has the FCX Clarity, which uses a hydrogen fuel-cell to generate electricity to power the electric motor.

As for some non-car company building an electric car, think of all the other car systems required. If you're a battery company, what the hell do you know about suspension, brakes, interior, crash safety, etc? It's easier for a car company to integrate a new powerplant than a battery company to integrate an entire car. Not to mention the HUGE capital outlay required to bring a new car to market.

legion · 01-16-2009, 07:33 AM

It's simple. There's no money to be made.

Electric cars would cost much more than comparable gasoline cars, have extremely limited range, and take hours to recharge between uses. Very few consumers are going to pay more for a product with less utility. (Except for those who put a misguided sense of "greenness" above economic reality.)

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Ever hear of the Tesla?

Not to mention that Toyota is building a plug-in Prius that should be for sale within a few years. Honda has the FCX Clarity, which uses a hydrogen fuel-cell to generate electricity to power the electric motor.

Yep.

Lotus wannabe

MotoSook · 07:45 AM

Plug in hybrids are just plain stupid! Reduce internal combustion engine exhaust in exchange for coal fired power plant exhaust and coal ash...no other way to describe this than..."Stupid."

Until electrical generation finds a way to get rid of coal burners....it's silly to think of plug in hybrids.

General Motors has just proudly anounced they're are spending billions on a battery factory for their plug in hybrids. good grief. Someone needs to kick Rick Wagner in the head.....and all the politicians that are too stupid to understand how the real world works.

A warm fuzzy hybrid program doesn't solve the real problem!

onewhippedpuppy · 01-16-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

It's simple. There's no money to be made.

Electric cars would cost much more than comparable gasoline cars, have extremely limited range, and take hours to recharge between uses. Very few consumers are going to pay more for a product with less utility. (Except for those who put a misguided sense of "greenness" above economic reality.)

Good point too. In reality there really isn't anybody offering a pure electic car. The Big-3 will be introducing electric cars in 2010 (Chevy Volt), but they still have a small onboard gasoline motor. I think the Volt has a 80 mile range on pure electric, then the motor kicks in. The big difference between the Volt and a hybrid is that the electric motor acts as a generator, there is no connection between the motor and wheels. The gas motor powers the electric motor, which then powers the car. It's a great idea, because you can't run out of battery.

Reportedly the 80 mile electric range requires an 8-hour charge on a standard 120V source, about $1 of electricity at current rates. Reportedly the Volt will be rated at over 100 MPG when it is introduced. Pretty impressive, why hasn't GM been building cool stuff like this for years?

KaptKaos · 01-16-2009, 07:42 AM

Building a car to meet all of the federal and various state laws requires cubic dollars. Using an already engineered platform from a gas/diesel car helps save on those costs.

onewhippedpuppy · 01-16-2009, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souk

Plug in hybrids are just plain stupid! Reduce internal combustion engine exhaust in exchange for coal fired power plant exhaust and coal ash...no other way to describe this than..."Stupid."

Until electrical generation finds a way to get rid of coal burners....it's silly to think of plug in hybrids.

General Motors has just proudly anounced their are spending billions on a battery factory for their pulg in hybrids. good grief. Someone needs to kick Rick Wagner in the head.....and all the politicians that are too stupid to understand how the real world works.

A warm fuzzy hybrid program doesn't solve the real problem!

It's a great idea, but I agree in that they are simply shifting the problem. You burn less oil and pollute very little from your cars, but then are required to burn more coal to meet increased electrical demands. Until we pull our heads out of our scared asses and embrace nuclear energy, this problem won't go away.

You really can't fault GM though. The customers are screaming for high-MPG cars. They deliver. They are a company trying to make money, do you think they really care about pollution from coal-fired powerplants?

Moses · 01-16-2009, 07:57 AM

In England, PML is producing the Mini QED. 640 HP, 800 mile range with a 250 cc motor acting as a generator for long trips. 800 mile range. 80+ MPG on long trips, no gas burned on short trips.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/21/pml-s-mini-qed-boasts-640-in-wheel-electric-horsepower/

rick-l · 01-16-2009, 08:00 AM

You would think there would be a market for a bare bones (but comfortable) 80 mile range commuter.

It would have to be small because it would be a second (or second and third car in a family) to go with the long range hauler.

MotoSook · 01-16-2009, 08:02 AM

General Motors also fed the public demand for big trucks and SUV's which got them in their current fix....and we're bailing them out. Meeting public demand and thinking ahead needs to go hand in hand. For as much as the electric car will cost in development and production, why doesn't GM or any other US MFG concentrate efforts toward a small, comfortable efficient gas or diesel burner that has the quality of a BMW or Benz? A fuel efficient P.O.S. is still a P.O.S.

If GM really wants to survive, they have to start leading....not following or feeding the silly US public demands. Create a new market (create a new public demand!) with a new product that will make people buy for several reasons other than fuel economy or low cost. People will pay more for a product they really desire due to its quality of construction, efficiency, performance (yes, efficiency and performance can go hand in hand). If GM, Ford or Chrysler quality are what's going into hybrids or "tomorrow's car" those cars will just be P.O.S. econo-means of transportation.... not much different than the throw away washers and dryers etc....

rick-l · 01-16-2009, 08:05 AM

Is electrical demand really a problem for a commuter car?

Electricity has to be produced the instant you use it. During the night there isn't that much demand. Crank the plants up 24/7?

Moses · 01-16-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-l

Is electrical demand really a problem for a commuter car?

Electricity has to be produced the instant you use it. During the night there isn't that much demand. Crank the plants up 24/7?

Nuclear plant produce at top output 24/7. They are PERFECT for off-peak production.

id10t · 01-16-2009, 08:08 AM

There is a guy in S FLorida making a kit to put a ~40hp electric motor in a VW Bug, 356, 912 (911 too I guess) or 914... approx $8k for everything.

rick-l · 01-16-2009, 08:10 AM

Did I mention I want this car to require zero maintenance and a 20 year life?

MotoSook · 01-16-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-l

You would think there would be a market for a bare bones (but comfortable) 80 mile range commuter.

It would have to be small because it would be a second (or second and third car in a family) to go with the long range hauler.

Here's my vison of tomorrow's transportation:

-small 3-wheel or 4-wheel single seat or 2-seat commuters. Electric or small gas or desiel I.C. engine for power. Every family would have 1 or 2 of these in addition to one larger car that is only used when needed to haul people of things that won't fit in the commuters.

A motorcycle can easily get 40+ MPG ... so do this:

or something like this for those that want a little more comfort: (this one is actually close to production)

And for the sporting type, how about this!:

I would really like something like this...but with a canopy to keep me dry or clean until I get to the office.

If folks would started buying small commuters like this....imagine the cost savings in fuel, highway maintenance, highway or road way construction, reduced consumption of natural resources dues to reduced production demand of smaller packages, less traffic congestion, less real estate for new roads and highways...

The world is not ready for an electrical just yet....so why not go small and work toward electric.....once folks start getting use to these smaller packages, a switch to electric power should be easier...and electric generation will have time to get clean...

jyl · jyl's Garage

Souk, what is the second picture in your post?

Also see http://www.myersmotors.com/
NMG, a three-wheel enclosed electric commuter vehicle. 76 mph, 50 mile range. I've sat in, I'd commute in it. Too expensive and styling is not great, but shows what's already do-able using electric. I'm not hung up on electric vs gasoline, though.