Question for you "Contractors"

[126coupe]

I have a commercial building I lease to the County of Riverside.
They want metal, plastisol type benches installed on the concrete patio in front of the building. This will be a surface mount installation. I need these installed as firmly as possible because the beating they most likely will be subjected to is eminent.
Its a Mental Health Building.
Thanks in advance

[Geronimo '74]

And the question is...???

You are looking for a contractor to install them???
You need color suggestions??

[126coupe]

The best way to surface mount the benches on to concrete?

[gr8fl4porsche]

Assuming they have steel plates under the support legs. Use 1/2" galvanized or stainless sleeve type anchors at all 4 corners. Going to need a big hammer drill.

[Zeke]

No, I'd core the concrete and set anchor bolts in Quikcrete anchor cement. Then, I'd peen over the exposed threads or weld the nuts to the bolts. This is the cement iron fences are set in concrete with. Very common, fast and cheap except for the coring. A large coring drill motor with water makes short work of it, though.

[Porsche_monkey]

Chemical anchors and plug weld the top of the nuts. Or use red loctite on them. Short of a zip-cut that will keep them in place.

[Zeke]

What's a chemical anchor?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by milt

No, I'd core the concrete and set anchor bolts in Quikcrete anchor cement. Then, I'd peen over the exposed threads or weld the nuts to the bolts. This is the cement iron fences are set in concrete with. Very common, fast and cheap except for the coring. A large coring drill motor with water makes short work of it, though.

+1

Without knowing more, that's probably how I'd detail it. Simple, easy.

[Aurel]

You need little nuts to secure the table from the big nuts .

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by milt

No, I'd core the concrete and set anchor bolts in Quikcrete anchor cement. Then, I'd peen over the exposed threads or weld the nuts to the bolts. This is the cement iron fences are set in concrete with. Very common, fast and cheap except for the coring. A large coring drill motor with water makes short work of it, though.

I think this would be the most permanent application, the "clients" at Mental Health are rough on stuff to say the least.
Milt, these benches have 4 holes, 3/8" bolts????. How much larger should the bored hole
be than the bolt?

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by milt

What's a chemical anchor?

Milt these are like an epoxied Red Head. These can work pretty will. Very fast install and can take Alto of vibration. I think Simpson makes one type. We use the big ones for horizontal pumps in thickened slabs.

[DasBoot]

Originally Posted by milt

No, I'd core the concrete and set anchor bolts in Quikcrete anchor cement. Then, I'd peen over the exposed threads or weld the nuts to the bolts. This is the cement iron fences are set in concrete with. Very common, fast and cheap except for the coring. A large coring drill motor with water makes short work of it, though.

Just curious as to why the coring? If the existing slab is adequate, I don't see any reason not to use sleeve/mushroom anchors...? Is the Quikcrete going to be as strong/stronger than an existing poured/reinforced slab?

I use these for anchoring rim joists to bond beams for support of upper floors. They're pretty secure:

[Zeke]

On that design for that "abuse," I'd order the benches with uprights hollow from the bottom, or modify them. I'd then slip the uprights over pipe cemented into the ground about 18" and bolt then from the side. No bolt anchor is going to not work loose over time with a 2 post design like that. 4 post would be much better. At least a gusseted "T" at the bottom to spread the load out.

If you decide to use the 2 legs and 4 bolts per, I'd sink all 4 into a common poured base at least a foot wide and 18" deep.

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by milt

On that design for that "abuse," I'd order the benches with uprights hollow from the bottom, or modify them. I'd then slip the uprights over pipe cemented into the ground about 18" and bolt then from the side. No bolt anchor is going to not work loose over time with a 2 post design like that. 4 post would be much better. At least a gusseted "T" at the bottom to spread the load out.

If you decide to use the 2 legs and 4 bolts per, I'd sink all 4 into a common poured base at least a foot wide and 18" deep.

Wow! 18" deep, this isn't the Gorilla enclosure at the SD Zoo, oh well maybe? it is?

[DasBoot]

Originally Posted by 126coupe

Wow! 18" deep, this isn't the Gorilla enclosure at the SD Zoo, oh well maybe? it is?

Four posts vs. two, mushroom anchors (w/welded nuts) into at least a 4" slab and you're GTG...

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Some building departments will require special inspection for epoxy anchors - probably even for something simple like this.

Use concrete if you can. Epoxy only when necessary (i.e. slab infills, dowel jobs, etc.)

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by 126coupe

Wow! 18" deep, this isn't the Gorilla enclosure at the SD Zoo, oh well maybe? it is?

I'm not an engineer, nor do I play with one , but 3 200lb. people moving about on a 2 post bench in soft soil would bring that thing down in a day or less. Captured in concrete, the base would have a much better chance, which is your condition.

Hey, you're the one leasing to the county. If it were mine, I wouldn't even give them a bench because of the liability. If I did, they would submit the plans for approval and give them to me. I would then get a contractor that has the proper insurance to do work in a public environment. I would also use a consulting engineer.

Call me careful, or whatever. I don't hardly do anything but some handy work anymore. I gave up my license and insurance. It's really too scary and too expensive to continue on. And my competition all stands at the Home Depot for any kind of job, so why would I stoop? I have assets, they have nothing.

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Some building departments will require special inspection for epoxy anchors - probably even for something simple like this.

Use concrete if you can. Epoxy only when necessary (i.e. slab infills, dowel jobs, etc.)

Well, for structural, you would need a deputy inspector for foundation bolts, etc. The bench is something else, but you might need a signed engineer's report on the fasteners to be used.

[vash]

is there any danger of the benches getting stolen? the ones i see installed get a hole drilled, cleaned out, and then they simply use a two part epoxy used to bond rebar. then use simple threaded rod.

but milt is right. you have to do it right. take a drive look about.

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by milt

I'm not an engineer, nor do I play with one , but 3 200lb. people moving about on a 2 post bench in soft soil would bring that thing down in a day or less. Captured in concrete, the base would have a much better chance, which is your condition.

Hey, you're the one leasing to the county. If it were mine, I wouldn't even give them a bench because of the liability. If I did, they would submit the plans for approval and give them to me. I would then get a contractor that has the proper insurance to do work in a public environment. I would also use a consulting engineer.

Call me careful, or whatever. I don't hardly do anything but some handy work anymore. I gave up my license and insurance. It's really too scary and too expensive to continue on. And my competition all stands at the Home Depot for any kind of job, so why would I stoop? I have assets, they have nothing.


Well, for structural, you would need a deputy inspector for foundation bolts, etc. The bench is something else, but you might need a signed engineer's report on the fasteners to be used.

Thanks Milt, another reason I love this board. iIn this sue happy country I will opt to sway the liability away from me. The clients at this facility have grown, and the lobby is full and the county needs more seating in the front patio/entry area.

[911Rob]

Use a Hilti Hit Epoxy anchor.

Step by step instructions: LINK

Contact the local "HILTI" supplier in your area, their salesman will explain it fully to you; these are engineered fastening systems and I can guarantee you they are the best for this application. Most every equipment/tool rental outlet will carry Hilti products.

I would not use a butterfly anchor, they can work loose and cause problems down the road (spalling).

Coring is more expensive and overkill for that application.
Make sure you "borrow" or rent the epoxy applicator gun for economics; the system is expensive, but compared to coring not.

Good luck, those are expensive benches too.