![]() |
|
|
|
|
![]() |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Rate Thread |
Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
|
The other big shoe to drop? "Commercial real estate loan defaults skyrocket"
Hang on, tightly.
My emphasis added in bold. Quote:
|
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 1,533
|
Hay just bring it on
![]() The over building of commercial in my neck of the woods is mind boggling! Makes you wonder, WTH are you doing building all this OS that nobody in the near future will ever rent? Dunno maybe they know sumthun I do not ![]()
__________________
Rod... 2010 - 997 PDK, Black on Black, Daily driver. 1987 - 930 Grand Prix White, Not looking for crazy HP, just harmony! |
||
![]() |
|
Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
|
Want some more?
![]() "Is California Going Bust?" from Forbes I've read both the commercial property and California headlines a few times in my life. Take care, |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 1,533
|
Kurt, I have a friend in a family construction biz…
His words are, the office space will be needed eventually and now is the best time to build it out with the low labor/material costs in today’s economic crisis. If I look inside any of his buildings, it’s all dirt floor just waiting for a tenant to fill it out!
__________________
Rod... 2010 - 997 PDK, Black on Black, Daily driver. 1987 - 930 Grand Prix White, Not looking for crazy HP, just harmony! |
||
![]() |
|
Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
|
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 1,533
|
Yea he claims it's a gamble, but stacked in his favor...
He does OK, not Bill Gates type of OK...but better than my type of OK ![]()
__________________
Rod... 2010 - 997 PDK, Black on Black, Daily driver. 1987 - 930 Grand Prix White, Not looking for crazy HP, just harmony! |
||
![]() |
|
![]() |
Dog-faced pony soldier
|
There was a heck of a lot of speculation in the commercial/retail market as well, driven indirectly by the speculation in residential (both due to "copycat" mentality and due to lots of retailers making "easy money" off of house flippers and other individuals with lots of "paper profits" being flush with cash). A lot of these retailers were luxury or pseudo-luxury types with mediocre business plans, largely just opportunists hawking goods with obscenely high markup rates, because during the good times, "rich" buyers were relatively easy to come by and were relatively indiscriminate in their shopping.
So basically I observed two things: (1) conventional retailers built like mad, creating a massive overcapacity in the retail sector and (2) "new" or unconventional/luxury retailers snapped up available "B" and "C" tier retail space, or created demand on shopping center developers to build new centers or expand... The multiplier effect of this is bad - lots of new stores = lots of new jobs, which is a good thing for a while. But now that those stores are having to face the reality that they never should have been built in the first place and were the result of either lousy RE deals, lousy catchment area analysis or both they're realizing they can't keep their doors open. Obviously this means vacant stores (bad for SC developers and communities) and naturally job losses. Retail as a sector is going to be D-E-A-D for a long time to come. In the words of an architect I worked for many years ago (who specialized in retail work & speculative shopping center developments): "...it's always the first to go and the last to come back..." This won't be any different. I sort of qualitatively think that retailers that have good business practices and models and sell a variety of products (not just overpriced "upscale" crap) will probably hang on if they can make it through this year. Generally speaking. But we're going to lose a TON of the high-mark-up "luxury" and "pseudo-luxury" retailers and it'll take a while for this to all shake out. There are going to be LOTS of shopping center vacancies for a good long time. Get your business plans ready for when the turnaround starts in a year or two - it'll be a good time to consider opening a small shop then I think...
__________________
A car, a 911, a motorbike and a few surfboards Black Cars Matter |
||
![]() |
|
Unconstitutional Patriot
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: volunteer state
Posts: 5,620
|
Quote:
The only way this works is if carrying costs and reduced build cost are offset by appreciation in property value. That's a very risky wager, particularly in a climate of declining/stagnant rents and cap rate expansion. The guy has balls, I must admit. |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
|
I do not have exact numbers. But I think the commercial real estate debt market is much smaller than the residential real estate debt market.
Oh, here: http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/04/news/economy/lockhart.reut/ So, on a whole economy basis, a downturn in CRE should be much less damaging than a downturn in housing. True, every additional downturn still hurts. Another difference - I think banks tended to keep CRE loans on their books rather than securitize them. If you look at what's happened to residential loans, values of the mortage-backed securities have been crushed w/ subprime and near-subprime written down to 30 cents, while the whole loans have been written down to only 80-90 cents. This is a very rough/ballpark average, for those banks who are actually doing mark-to-market. So if CRE follows the path of residential RE whole loans to date, I think the damage to financial institution balance sheets should be quite limited compared to what we've seen with securitized residential mortgages. Obviously it will vary by institution - some of the smaller banks may be relatively more exposed to CRE. I'm not an expert on debt markets so don't take above as gospel, just my opinion. Edit: One thing I have not considered is the need to roll over maturing CRE debt - if this could precipitate a crisis. BTW, think about the 30 cent valuation mentioned above. Averaged over all tranches of the debt, that implies 70% of the houses go to foreclosure and the loss on foreclosure is 100%, or 100% go into foreclosure and the loss is 70%, or something in between. All of those scenarios seem very unlikely to me. That 30 cent valuation seems oversold.
__________________
1989 3.2 Carrera coupe; 1988 Westy Vanagon, Zetec; 1986 E28 M30; 1994 W124; 2004 S211 What? Uh . . . “he” and “him”? Last edited by jyl; 03-27-2009 at 08:54 AM.. |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 11,239
|
While I remain bullish on commercial r/e in the long run, I have often worried about the effect of irrational purchasing driven by the 1031 exchange. Folks are often willing to overpay/pay top dollar in order to avoid taxes - not always rational IMO. And then that property becomes a comp...
__________________
David 1972 911T/S MFI Survivor |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
|
Can't be great with BIG BOX stores like Circuit City going bust, and Office Depot scaling back their stores.
|
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
Posts: 37,686
|
Quote:
Office occupancy is pretty low right now in the OC where all the silk suits used to be. |
||
![]() |
|