In a lot of states you are allowed to protect anyone that needs protecting.

I am just not the stand around and watch crime unfold while doing nothing sort.

I'm not either. But I'd have to be 110% sure of what was happening before stepping in. If my wife were with me, she'd be the only thing I'd worry about. Everyone else would be on their own. If I was alone, I might be willing to take more of a risk for someone else. In AZ you're required to stop and assist a police officer if you see one involved in a struggle and you have a CCW.

I don't think we are talking about open carry in situations where it is pretty common and not unexpected - in the backcountry, on the ranch, maybe at a rodeo, etc. I have no issues with that, I would do it too.

I think we're talking about open carry in situations where it is not common - people walking into the local Starbucks, 7-11, bank, your local restaurant, your kids school, etc with a Glock openly displayed on their belt. "In town" situations, in other words.

Sorry, but creepy-looking guys openly carrying weapons "in town" make other people uncomfortable. They interfere with other people's ability to relax and enjoy their lives. (You don't look creepy? Well, maybe you do. Not all of us look like Jack Olsen.) Just like people who carry loud boomboxes, rant to invisible audiences, stink of BO, and otherwise make those around them uncomfortable.

And I'm not hearing a clear story about the benefit of carrying openly, other than making a statement and tweaking drivers with CA license plates. Is there some place where you're so afraid that you feel the need to openly display your weapon, or to be able to present that weapon faster than a IWB allows? Use common sense and don't go there.

With my CHL, I am permitted to carry openly in Oregon, even in Portland. I think it is a pointless and inconsiderate thing to do, "in town". My snubnose rides quietly in my jacket pocket, and if that's not enough, I'll turn around and go somewhere else.

Again, no problem with carrying openly in the field. That's perfectly appropriate in my book.

"And rightly so imho"???? Really?

I find it sad that we have been intimidated into being afraid to help one another should we witness a crime in action. Particularly if someone is getting hurt. It absolutely turns my stomach every time I read a story, or see a news report, of someone who gets needlessly hurt because bystanders "don't want to get involved". We are all in this together. It's usually not very hard at all to tell the good guys from the bad guys.

The authorities would like us all to believe it is their job to protect us. The courts have actually ruled otherwise, time and time again, ruling that the police have a "general responsibility" but no specific, individual responsibility if someone falls victim to a crime. Imagine how that one could go, in this lawsuit happy U.S. of A... but I digress. It's the authorities' way of saying they cannot possibly protect us at the critical moment.

Let me ask a couple questions related to DARISC's - how many instances of police officers being at exactly the right place, at exactly the right time to foil a perp in action can anyone show us? Assault, armed robbery, burgalry, whatever. How does that number stack up, when expressed as a percentage of the times they were not at the right place at the right time? Just a hunch, but I bet the number of crimes they stop while actually being committed are statistically insignificant. Even when called to a crime scene. As the sayings go, "when seconds count, they are only minutes away" and "Call a cop; order a pizza - see which one gets there first".

Story told to me yesterday in CCW class. Off-duty cop come up to liquor store, sees a guy with a gun holding up the place. Starts to pull weapon and then someone comes running up - was a movie shoot and they didn't have security as good as they should have.

In many situations it can be hard to tell who the good guy and bad guy is. Do you want a wrong choice on your conscience? If I have been "in the situation" the whole time I know the story. If I come upon a situation I might not.

I feel the same way. My CHL doesn't make me a hero-in-waiting.

??? CCW class ??? Does this mean you are getting one, in Los Angeles?

No, Utah permit. Because I can...plus more training is rarely a bad thing.

[QUOTE=m21sniper;4576986]3 times for me so far.

Once i caught a fleeing scumbag on foot(illegal, no license or insurance) after he hit and ran a lady and her kid in their car. He hit her so hard his inertia switch triggered and his car stalled, so he was forced to try and run on foot. This was a major accident and serious injuries were involved.
I was just a little faster. Mr. 9mm convinced him to follow me back to the accident scene with no fuss or muss. Last i saw him he was wearing shiny silver bracelets and going for a ride in the pretty car with the flashing blue and red lights. :)

I just recently caught a different hit and run guy that tried to flee when he hit the car in front of mine and my partner's saab. I didn't require a pistol for that one, though my partner did end up pepper spraying the COMPLETELY HAMMERED DRUNK guy.

Another time i caught 3 young guys trying to break into the bar under my apartmet. My white german shepard and mr. 12 gauge pump convinced them to stop that chit right away.

Finally, i was in my car and the guy behind me was in full road rage mode for some perceived offense. At was at the tail end of rush hour, maybe 7:00pm.

After he followed me trying to cut me off and panic brake in front of me several times i just pulled onto a commercial street(no witnesses or innocents) and stopped my car.
Sure enough, he pulled up right behind me and tapped my bumper, and gets out all in a rage.


OUTFREEKING STANDING!

you know anyone who wants to get in a shootout in my book is a freeking lunatic in his own right. im not dumb and im not stoopid......bullets hurt........ALOT!

butttt..........on the other side of the coin i have been shooting wayyyy longer than most here and at a preeeetty high level over the years. without hesatation in the event of being in the REALLY WRONG PLACE AT THE REALLY WRONG TIME i will be coming from concealed and firing before any of you can spit! and not think twice if put in that position. there is no time to think. your training takes over and thats that!. any scumbag that puts anyone around me in that position, i will draw down and fire if i have a clear shot.

and thats exactly what i did last summer up on clear creek outside of camp verde when the idiot mofo POS started sending tree branches and leaves falling on our heads shooting at us! had i had a clear shot after yelling at him as well as about 50 other people, TO CEASE FIRE and he then reloaded after all of us yelling and proceeded to fire some more, the only freeking reason that POS MOFO POS is still on this planet is because i didnt have a clear shot! and that was witnessed by at least 50 people including my g/friend, uncle bill from patricks his wife his kids his dog!

when this clown continued shooting after everyone yelling, i was angling around my truck,round in pipe,safety off,finger on trigger, using truck for cover looking for the clear shot to cease the threat. no ifs and or butts, if i had the clear shot he WAS DEAD! all my years of training took over and it was him or me. and believe me it was NOT GONNA BE ME!

when it was all said and done with the cops and the usfs ranger danger quite a few sheeple came up to me and thanked me for my actions. no b.s. no embellishment. me.........i was scared poo-less. it took a hell of alot of beers that night to put my adrenaline down to a acceptable level.

i didnt want to be in that position, i didnt ask for that situation, i wouldnt wish that upon anyone. until you have been shot at dont even try and tell me what you would or wouldnt do. all i know is since i have been shooting ALOT and hunting ALOT and shooting matches ALOT since i was 6 years old with about every kind of weapon there is, i think i kind of know something about the subject. writing about this experience right now has my blood pressure up. this clown could have killed quite a few people because of his stupidity. as i said if i had a clear shot on his worthless ass there would be one less idiot mofo on this planet. i have always been trained to only take the shot when it is clear. i think i handled myself with more restraint than 99.99999999999999999% of most people. in hindsight i may have hit him emptying my clip thru the trees and reloading,emptying clip, thru the tree branches, but i also may have hit someone else. and that thought does keep rolling over in my mind. and if someone by us had been hit and i didnt take the shot because it wasnt clear, should i have taken the shot when it wasnt clear to cease the threat?????

after that camping trip i will never go again without superior overwhelming massive firepower! screw a .45!

not fun by any stretch. will never forget it it ever!

by the way last sunday i shot 15th out of 52 people attending. i was ranked 6 places above my 20 year old son whose a damn good shot in his own right. i havent shot a match in years............YEARS! the 14 people ahead of me on the roster shoot every 4th sunday. they are wayy older than me. they shoot alot. like their retired and SHOOT ALOT! they live within 20 minutes of the range.......they SHOOT ALOT!

i felt pretty damn good about that. the last time i shot a match i didnt need glasses. getting old sucks when it comes to eyesight. i used to have BEYOND PERFECT VISION, like the bottom row of the eye chart was simple. those were the days. i hate glasses when it comes to shooting. i had my glasses on up in clear creek, if i had seen him i would have shot him. no 2 ways about it! it wasnt fun and i will never go thru that again if i can help it in anyway!

as for paco de muy loco cabeza, he got reckless endangerment, firing a weapon within usfs campgrounds, and a few other nice firearms offenses that preclude his worthless ass from ever possessing a firearm again in his life! thank you usfs ranger dangers and yavapai county sheriffs office.

That's a one in a million scenario, even in Hollywood. Not likely to happen in the real world. I'm more worried about getting struck by lightening twice in the same day.

Granted this was something like 25 years ago but when my sister was moving out of Lyman Wyoming, the big controversy there was a city ordinance (Lyman or Rock Springs) that would have required guys to check their side arms with the bartender while drinking in the bar. This was a very controversial proposed ordinance. Lots of guys were pretty offended and alarmed that someone would suggest such a thing.

I don't think any of us are just itching for the opportunity (despite folks like DARISC's characterizations) to "use" our CCW's. I admit I would be scared motherless if it every really came to that. I also think that good judgement and caution would certainly prevail. It would be the most serious thing any of us have ever done... None of us would take it lightly. I have to think that when the situation warrents, it will be very painfully obvious. It usually is, if you read accounts from those who have had to do this.

Who's going to say something to a guy packin' heat?!? ;)

Not me!

I would do that anyway.

One night when me and my repo partner were in N.Philly we saw a couple cops BATTLING it out with some giant african dude.

We stopped and helped. I could barely walk for 3 days afterwards. LOL.

I agree with this post almost entirely.

Open carry is just not for me.

No one is shooting any movies here, and if they do and they're so stupid they don't make sure it's apparent what they're doing, whatever happens is their fault.

Keifer Sutherland actually intervened in a film being shot once when he saw 2 guys beating the spit out of an old person.

Turns out it was being staged for the camera, but he still stopped and played Jack Bauer for real. ;)

A friend of mine worked as makeup artist for the thing the Sutherland broke up. They were shooting a "mugging" on the street and he pulled over and saved the day.

In LA it is quite common to stumble onto something being filmed. For large productions it is quite obvious due to the amount of surrounding infrastructure. But for indie or run-and-gun production, it can be just actors and maybe a crew of 1-4 people. If the camera is out of sight...

Rick,

You sure wouldn't offend me, but you sure know how to make a guy jealous and just feel bad.:(

There was me 25 years ago. I soon decided concealed carry was more my style, even though AR had no statute in effect then. I decided the typical perp would figure out that someone working in a place with several hundred guns would probably have a working knowledge of firearms and might possibly have a loaded one nearby and thus would take that into consideration prior to any confrontation.
Jim

When I first moved to Tejas, maybe 2 weeks after I got there, they had this old hick on the TV news who capped a car jacker with his .357. He witnessed the car jacking, figured the lady was not talking about her BMW when she was crying about "her baby." He went and got his pistol from under the seat of his truck and shot the criminal in the head as he rolled by, baby in the back seat. When the reporter asked if he was worried about hitting the kid, he gets the funniest look on his face, the are you stupid or something look, and replies, "The kid was in the back seat"

An airweight S&W .38 is pretty damn compact, palm of your hand

The Senate took up the F-22 issue last week, but then put it aside to deal with two amendments having nothing to do with defense. On Thursday senators voted to adopt a major expansion to hate crimes law, and on Monday they turned to a proposal allowing people with concealed weapons permits in one state to carry their weapons into other states. A vote on the gun law was expected Wednesday.

Never ever gonna happen. Schumer has promised a filibuster and it won't even get that far. DOA.

what a gol dern feeking NOVEL idea.............................

GOOD GUYS in the u.s. according to 2nd amend can go in ALL FEEKING 50 states to protect family and self and carry concealed!


damn what feeking EINSTEIN came up with this idea???????????????????????

feeking amazinng! huh?

great article in NRA mag this month how john dillinger(AKA BAD-GUY) was shot coming out of movie theatre. one in the head with a .45 ...............WILL DO DAT!

Imagine if driver's licenses were treated like CCW.

I saw Public Enemies on Sunday. Folks like Dillinger are largely why we have BS laws like the 1934 NFA. Sure was cool to see those BAR's and Tommy Guns in action in that movie though. Michael Mann directed it, so you know the gunfights are great.

BTW, my understanding of the bill is that it simply forces reprocity. It does not force states like Illinois and Wisconsin (the only two without any form of CCW) to allow CCW.

The problem is that plenty of states issue CCW's to a select few, but don't have shall-issue laws on the books. Forced reciprocity would mean those states have to accept other states' CCW's and plenty of states issue permits to non-residents. So, if you live in CA and aren't a major donor to the local sherriff's campaign or a celebrity or a professional victim, you don't get a CCW in CA. But you can get a non-resident permit in AZ or NV and CA would have to accept it. I'd love to see this, but it ain't gonna ever happen. Never.

how many states did johnny dillinger cruise thru with concealed weapons?????



how many concealed guns did johnny dillinger have on him the day he was VAPORIZED by a .45?????


bad guys dont care!

An 18yo can not own a handgun legally.

But why is it- i must ask- that 18yo's brandishing M-16s, M-60s, M-249s etc in the US military doesn't bother you?

The 18 y/o's in our military are not the same 18 y/o's in the Crips and Bloods.

Actually, many of our young troops are former(?) gang members.

And again, an 18yo- and certainly not one with a gangbangers criminal record- can not own a sidearm.

So in reality, this is a total non issue.

Anyone with a felony conviciton on their record can't legally own a gun anyway. How many times have you seen gangsta-wannbes open carrying? I see OC'ers just about weekly and I've never seen one that didn't look like a responsible adult. Gangbangers don't want to draw attention to themselves. I'm not aware of anyone in AZ carrying either openly or concealed having ever started trouble with a gun.

I prefer concealed carry because then the bad guys don't know who's carrying and who's not. My Sig P239 is my main carry pistol.

dress for success..............since its 1 bazzillion degrees out here in da dezert...........walther ppk/s stainless fer me.

stainless or roguard............they only wayyyyy to go. sweat aint good on blued guns. humidity aint good on blued guns. rain aint good on blued guns.


CCW HK4 update! get this ..........robar is done with my HK4 and another HK4 slide complete i picked up horsey trading. extra slide was beat. archetypical hillbilly moron took care of it. bluing was toast. i polished the hell outta it meself but it needed TLC that only robar could do. i brought in the .380 barrels(2) since thats what i will carry. why carry pissant .22/.25/.32(which i have barrels for)? .380 makes life simple since i own (3) now. both complete veapon and slide roguarded. CANT WAIT TO SEE IT AND SHOOT THE HELL OUT OF IT!

anyway robar stated its ready for test firing ie. its all DONE!.....................butt they are out of .380 ammo. go figure?????

oh well still up to my eyeballs in socom build. waiting on new springfield warranty PC hillary approved GREEN socom stock FO FREE since my oem stock cracked. cant move forward with UBER ULTRA BUENO SADLAK 3X stronger front sling and bipod mount drilling and bedding with devcon liquid steel. receiver goodies all done and installed. ie. THE UBER ULTRA BUENO UNITIZED ACCESSORIZZED ARRINGTON ADMIRAL(my ffl) GREEN SOCOM!


SO I AWAIT FOR MY CHILDREN TO RETURN.....................ho hum. so in my spare time i abuse myself by painting my upstairs house interior navajo white. more fun than i can stand(FEEKING NOT!!!!)

when the weather cools down here or i am wearing long pants and a hawaiian shirt/baggy dark t-shirt , thats when i'll go to my 9mm's or .45's for concealed.

hell 3/4's of the time i dont even realize i have the walther or HK4 in my pants they are so light weight.

I never leave home without my SIG P239 unless I feel like carrying something bigger. I had it at the range last week and it's still the most accurate gun I own. I have a habit of getting too sentimentally attached to some guns and then don't like taking them out of the house anymore. I may need to find another P239 for carry duty.

My next carry gun will be a stainless Walther PPK. The Sig P239 is great, but it's a little too big to carry concealed in the summer (shorts, light shirt, etc...). I'll always keep my Sigs!

if ya buy a walther read this know this live this learn this:

buy a interarms walther everything OTAY!

buy a smith und wesson walther ppk/s MAKE SURE THERE IS A PUNCH DENT IN HAMMER SPUR! this denotes and by serial number(e-them #) that it has gone thru recall at smith und wesson. read more at walther usa.com all smith und wesson ppk/s RECALLED from 2002 thru feb 2009. recall initiated because when decocker dropped to decock hammer GUN WENT BANG! not good for smiths insurance company nor you or i.

cylinderandslide.com and earlsservice.com are THE WALTHER PPK GURUS.


.380's are very MISUNDERSTOOD ! very nasty round that has a world war behind it as a test bed. speewerks fabricken was liberated by pattons army. lots of takehomes brought back to states. commanding bigger bucks now. any waffen/nazi markings makes them more collectible.

fer furthur walther giggles and a glimpse at their P5 and P5compact in 9mm go to walterforums.com. cool stuffen there.

I've tried out the P239, so, maybe I'll check out the PPK before I make any decisions.

Wasn't the .380 under powered against the Phillipine natives leading to the std issue of the .45 1911 over there? I thought I heard the Guns&Ammo TV guys talking about it when they were discussing the 1911. Not saying anything bad about the .380. There are a couple (Ruger copied KelTec) of .380 CCW pistols are are very very compact! I almost (almost) discount them because they are too small for my hand.

Charles - what's your guy do to the slides on your autofeeders?

Jim - consider the KelTec PF9. It's supper light (less than 12 ounces) and at a good price point...so you won't flinch if it went missing because you ahd to leave it in the car for some reason. The current productions are reliable.