Audiophiles: Did You Get Dupped Into the CD Craze?

[pwd72s]

I play all three...but only when Cindy is out of the house. She claims the stereo brings on her migrane attacks. Should just trash all the sound equipment and buy her a large screen TV, so she can watch garbage to her heart's content...

[herr_oberst]

I have the ipod in the Carrera, the ipod and the CD's for the living room, and when I want to really unwind, relax, and make an event out of the music and take the time to listen, Vinyl. There is no comparison. Vinyl is more natural, real, and warm.
CD's, even played through a good setup (good, not outrageous, all digital) sound ok, but they are always a little "bright";
the ipod set to shuffle works great when I need background music during a project, either indoor or outdoor and I don't want to keep changing discs. (single disc player, no changers anymore.)

As for the ipod in the Carrera, there is no way to get decent hi fi in that noisemaker, so it's nice to assemble a couple of playlists for the road depending on my mood and the weather, and crank up the Golden Earring, or whatever.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by GO DAWG GO

Ian,

I have been told that CDs are consistant in there playback quality and the only real difference was the digital preamplifier. Most will say they all sound the same...???

I would be very interested in a audiophile CD player if one exists. I dont need all the bells a whistles though. What would you recommend that is appreciably better in tone, warmth detail and signal to noise?

Thanks

Bob

for the money you cant beat a Rega CD player

i have a Planet 2000...9 years old now
http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/rega/cd-players/planet-2000/PRD_125473_1586crx.aspx

they have newer models as well.

what i would consider on the entry level of true audiophile CD playback. As good as ill ever need. Sounds amazing

the thing with audiophile gear is, your weakest link destroys the whole chain. you really have to match the gear right...which is part of the fun

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by GO DAWG GO

I have been told that CDs are consistant in there playback quality and the only real difference was the digital preamplifier. Most will say they all sound the same...???

No. There are huge differences in playback quality. When CD was introduced, it was a new game for recording engineers, mixers & masterers. It took a while for everybody to learn how to use it. At the same time our understanding of the hardware – both recording & playback - has improved significantly. The importance of DACS. The key role of clocking. Jitter. Turntables & their flaws were well known & there has been miniscule development in vinyl reproduction over the last decade. But digital playback has improved dramatically. Of course, the fly in the ointment is that recordings – whether stamped on vinyl or acrylic bits – are still subject to the demands of the record company. And they want compressed dynamics to win the iPod shuffle (used to be the radio dial driveby).

Originally Posted by GO DAWG GO

I would be very interested in a audiophile CD player if one exists. I dont need all the bells a whistles though. What would you recommend that is appreciably better in tone, warmth detail and signal to noise?

There are numerous makes & models. Look for simple single play CD players. The better ones kick in above $500. At $1500 you break into players that use very good DACs, good power supplies etc etc. I am hopelessly biased, but give our Cambridge Audio 840C a listen if you see one around.

The other possibility is look for external add on DACS. You keep your CD player & digital out to an external self powered DAC. Wadia makes a good one. We have a Cambridge (DacMagic) that we can’t keep in stock – and I can’t even get a sample. You can also use these with your computer with amazing result since they have USB in.

And speaking of Dire Straights . . . listen to Private Investigations. On vinyl or CD, that recording had an upper midrange sharpness. That’s the way it was mixed. On a very good digital system this song takes your breath away. Vinyl always added noise but in digital, the background is silent. With the footsteps . . . wow . . .

Ian

[gchappel]

I have preferred vinyl for over 30 years. My collection numbers about 4,000 albums. All tube except for class A amps. Oracle table.
I have never heard a CD sound anything like vinyl- except for some of the better mixed SACD's. If you think cd sound better, and vinyl only has clicks- good for you.
In my humble opinion you are wrong, but we all hear things differently. I, for instance, can not hear the difference in most cables, especially digital cables, but some say they can.
Here is my test. I can take a vinyl record, pick a complex piece- and play it over and over again- loud. With vinyl I can play the same cut dozens of times and it still engages me. With a Cd- and yes I have heard many of the high end transports, I have a tube DAC and preamp- I lose interest in the cut by about the 2nd or 3rd play. It starts to sound raspy- and there is an irritating upper edge. I then turn it down.
But, that is just me.
If you have never heard a good vinyl setup- do yourself a favor and go listen.
Gary

[ErVikingo]

Originally Posted by GO DAWG GO

I would be very interested in a audiophile CD player if one exists. I dont need all the bells a whistles though. What would you recommend that is appreciably better in tone, warmth detail and signal to noise?

I have a Theta Data with a DS Pro which sounds great, Dad runs a Meridian which is real good and I also have a tweaked Sony ES single transport which sounds real nice. No clicks and pops but neither the depth of vinyl (perhaps due to the mix). Try some of the JVC high end cd recordings...

[afterburn 549]

I am not going to tell what sounds better but I encourage you to go find an ol juke box in good working order, play it, you will see what i mean. The sound is real, not shallow

[m21sniper]

The problem with CDs is how they're recorded. This is a well known issue.

A properly recorded CD sounds a lot better than a record does.

[K. Roman]

Not exactly. It is how it is mastered for the CD. Same with vinyl. You need to master the CD or Vinyl to accompany the medium.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

The problem with CDs is how they're recorded. This is a well known issue.

A properly recorded CD sounds a lot better than a record does.

[K. Roman]

Sniper, You just like to take the minority opinion. That's why I like you.

[ramonesfreak]

[tedward515]

I think that one of the reasons why vinyl is making a bit of a comeback is not just sound or nostalgia, but the ritual of it all. With a CD you just pop in the disc, select your track and press play. With vinyl LPs you have a large disc that you have to be very careful with that you don’t scratch, you place it on the turn table and put the needle on the track that you want to listen to. When that side is done you have to flip it over to listen to the other side. While your listening your likely to be relaxing, maybe with some friends or a drink. You likely enjoy looking at the artwork on the sleeve which is much larger than a CD. To me this is a little like driving an old Porsche, if we just wanted to get in and drive then we would all buy a Honda and be done with it. But we don’t, so we put up with all kinds of things that the majority of drivers wouldn’t. We want our driving experience to be a little more in depth just like I think those who prefer vinyl do. Now in my opinion CD’s are the better format because of the consistency in playback, and its ability to be faithful reproduction of the music (however harsh it may sound). Of course the music on a CD is only as good as the master tapes and how well it’s mastered to disc and so on. For myself I use a solid state preamp, and tube power amp to get back a little bit of that warmth that I miss with a CD. To me it rounds the edges just enough to let me relax while I listen but not get frustrated with the cracks and pops of vinyl. Now don’t get me wrong, I do think that vinyl gives certain warmth to a piece of music that a CD can’t match, but I’m too lazy to lug vinyl around. Also stereo system is only as good as it weakest link. Whether you have vinyl or CD it will sound like a$$ with junk monitors

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by gchappel

In my humble opinion you are wrong, but we all hear things differently.

At the Rocky Mountain show in Denver in Oct, we had the opportunity to do an honest comparison. We co/op'd Audio Unlimited's room. We supplied a pair of our Grande Utopia EM speaker. Boulder brought in their best mono blocks, pre & source & cd player. Musical Surrounding's Garth brought in & setup the Clear Audio $150K turntable. Cabling was some high end brand & conditioning was Shunyata. A truly high end analogue & CD system at a scary, scary price. We had one piece of music on both LP & CD. Gary Karr's double bass piece Adagio in G minor by Albinoni (extremely good btw).

We had a roomful of industry guys & we all heard the same thing. CD - better bass (by far), better resolution, better top extension & better focus. TT - better midrange liquidity - almost smeared but deliciously so.

Ian

[GO DAWG GO]

Fellas,

Lets see your systems!....... I didnt realize Pellican had some audio gurus.

I didnt expect this thread to go where it has obviously taken us. There are some real Pellicanite audiophiles here. I would consider myself kind of stuck in the late 70's and 80's when it comes to preamps amd poweramps. I have always like Phase Linear for its innate horse power, clarity and warmth. My main amp is the 700B is one Horse Power ~750 watts. My second is 400 watts with another 400 mono blocks amplifying my center section.
I thought you guys might enjoy my some of the pictures of my equipment as I built it. The rack, recording center and the integration of JBL, Altec Lansing and Eminense speakers which are very capable of shearing the house off its foundation.

Anyway here are some pictures that are fairly recent of my system and the lacquer black rack I built in my back yard.



The Micro Seiki DDX 1000 with Infinity Black Widow arms....




My main rack with signal processors and Phase Linear amps. It really looks nice. I fabbed, built and finished it in Black metal speck (Smaller than flake) enamel (Auto paint)




Altec Lancing Voice of the theatre folded horn with JBL 2405 bullet tweeters, Mid range horn and Kenwood monoblock amps



Eminence and JBL drivers





Teac 4 channel Reel to reel for recording my son playing the Dean Dime in the background. BTW, I play drums. We have a good time.

[88-diamondblue]

Most vinyl has a much better sound. SACD is very close to it. The first time I heard SACD it brought back the excitement of listening to music again. Back to the warmth of the vinyl album. Of course listening to it on McIntosh tube equipment that is just about as old as I am helps a lot. I have two MC-30's and a C-20 preamp. This is one of my amplifiers.

[89911]

OK audio snobs, I'll throw my $.02 in.. Maybe CD's weren't the answer. Personally, I don't have the time or devotion to rig up a complete room with audio gear and listen in silence. But do you really think technology that is a 100 years old can't be improved upon? And why is there a correlation between spending astronomical amounts of money (tube amps, audiophile turntables) to being able to really "listen" to music on vinyl. Along with expensive red wines, sometimes its hard to take the objectivity out of the picture.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

What is really strange is the old tube stuff sounded much more better then the digital !!
A LOT more better

Tubes and vinyl just go together.

[GO DAWG GO]

899,

You have convinced me. Yes 100 year old technology is being improved upon. The technology in contemporary turntables is vastly different than the early science. Music and sound is a vibrato of frequencies arranged in order to provide a acoustic auditory sensation/ stimulus. The human ear and its inter components are very analog. The inner ear drum resonates to the frequencies like a diaphragm in a microphone and is a very complex transducer sending information to the brain.

Sound/Music is Analog...Not digital. There is really no way to augment the amplitude without distorting the sine wave to an extent. Its no accident that digital sound is close to analog reproduction but truly cant get there because of its composition and structure..close but no cigar!

Contemporary tone arms and cartridges styli can trace a grove much more accurately with various geometrical polished tips, some designed for great detail and others for less detriment to the vinyl itself. The downstream cartridge is much more sensitive with low and high mass moving coil inductance and better separation from motor hum and other extraneous noise that gets thrown in the mix causing very subliminal irritation.

I can see your face value lack of acceptance for a room full on equipment that looks like the crew station on the space shuttle., but to my madness is evolving as I go like I did when I was sorting out my 930/Porsches. Sometimes you can buy 3 different type of turbochargers before you fit the one that is harmonious to the rest of you system and works at its highest efficiency level.

In the mean time my son has become (in my opinion) a fantastic guitarist for just turning 14. I decided to record he and I jamming together and burn a disk of buffer music for my brothers talk radio show in Sacramento.

[GO DAWG GO]

Mike,

How old is your MC-30s. Those are very nice, I mean VERY nice! 1965ish?????? I love the sound of McIntosh. I also like the headroom in superamps like the 700B at a reasonable cost...

By the way, what is your address?

Bob

[ramonesfreak]

hey Bob ive got the same Teac 3340 reel to reel, except that i have the first generation one. im very upset as mine just broke...i love that thing. you ever want to sell yours let me know

no pictures of my system while at work, but maybe ill take some later.

my main system is small and humble and just right for a 650 sq ft condo

1) Bryston B-60 integrated
2) Rega Planet 2000 CD
3) Harman Hardon Rabco ST-7 linear tracking TT (1977)
4) B&W CDM1se speakers, bi-wired with prism cables
5) Rotel 9708x phono stage
6) Harman Kardon T-403 tuner (mid-70's)