Roofing Question - Flashing

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

To start off with, this is not my home, it is a friends home, money is an issue. Home was bought in 2004, home inspector did not find any issues with the home (he must have been blind and not used any simple tools). I wish I had been there to look at it with her, the realtor @#$&@*#$ her. She should have been directed to another property.

I am looking at a roof that is original to the home. 15 year old home (not mine) with a 20 year roof (asphalt tiles). The north side of the home has disintegrating tiles.

There is growth on the tiles. The home builder failed to put in flashing. I could not see/feel flashing under the aluminum siding. The roof tile had about three inches up under the siding.

The channels where the roof angles meet have no visible flashing, the roof tiles are weaved together. The tiles over the peaks are cracked.

You can lift the tiles on the end of the roof and see there is ZERO decking going to the edge of the roof. There is a double layer of roof tiles at the termination point before the gutters. When you lift the roof tiles you can see the aluminum siding under the eaves. There is NOTHING under the end tiles.

I am thinking the north side of the home should be re-done/re-shingled with proper flashing. I cannot do the work.

Could the lack of flashing/decking be corrected by putting in aluminum flashing of sufficient length to slide under the decking? How would this be attached and how do we work with the gutters?

There is no rot visible to me in these areas. There are future structural issues that will need to be addressed in the next several years. before anything can become a real issue. I just cannot believe the builder put together a home this way! Simply criminal, IMHO!!

On the plus side, it is a cute floor plan, 3 bd, 3.5 bath....

[dad911]

It is common, probably better to 'weave' a valley. Less chance to leak with ice dams.
Are you talking about flashing at the bottom of the roof by the gutter? Or at the top like where a shed roof meets a sidewall?

Are you sure there isn't flashing? I make the roofer cover the flashing with shingles, so you don't see an aluminum band. Ugly, IMHO.

Most common cause (again, IMHO) of roofing failure is not enough attic ventilation. Were vents installed? Did homeowner cover them to prevent drafts?

And 15 years on a 20 year roof isn't so bad....No leaks? So the builder is Criminal?

And why would you not expect some 'growth' on the north side of a roof? Heavily shaded? Hell, I've seen 'growth' on the shady sides of houses quite frequently....... I'd call it a maintenance item.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

So weaving the valley gives less chance of ice dams? We did not have those issues in Southeast Texas...

Is weaving the valley a preferred method in Central Indiana???

I am not sure of zero leaks. There are water stains inside the north side of the home. I can access the attic area and there is zero warping of the wood. I could not see any rot. The builder left OSB exposed in the north side eaves. This has to be cut out and replaced. The north side is not under trees but it does receive the brunt of all the bad weather.

Is replacing only the north side roof considered an appropriate approach? I could not see replacing the entire roof. The other shingles seem to have life left in them. The roof has facings in all directions (N/S/E/W).

Flashing is missing around most windows. I did see some flashing on the front of the dormers where the shingles meet the top of the dormer. Flashing is no where to be found where any shingle meets gutters. Heck, there is ZERO decking under the end shingles. I am wondering if flashing would serve as both the decking and the flashing. You cannot step on the first bit of the roof for fear of falling through!! There is nothing there but shingle.

There are two vents, one on either side of the house in the peak of the wall, nothing in the roof that I can see. No center vents. When the house is re-roofed completely then vents will need to be installed. There is insulation against the drywall.

There are air leaks around the double pain windows in most locations as there is no flashing and most windows do not show signs of caulking. I can feel the breeze coming from around closed windows up stairs. Insects find their way inside.

This is, IMHO, criminal. There are some other structural short cuts that are truly PATHETIC. Roof beams not tied together. Two nails where the 2x4's in the roofing meet for the entire length of the roof. There is limited support to the roof beams other than where there is sheathing.

Instead of using 4" wide lumber (3.5") the builder stapled 2x4,6,8s (including ones that were 2' long) together to create 4" wide lumber for use as structural support. The 2x4,6,8's were never clad and were not screwed/stapled together in multiple locations. The end result is the lumber is starting to bow/warp. Some will need to be cut out and replaced. Most can likely have additional strapping/screws, paint for sealing, and clad to protect. Lots of corrective work that needs to be done. Lots of time and money...

Similar house nearby. The brick is flaking off the exterior. Literally, it is laying on the ground in pieces. The current owners keep a layer of paint on the brick. They had to put in a new roof and new eaves last year as they rotted out. 16 years old.

Yeah, they build homes differently now than 40 years ago... How do we go about fixing the issue short of re-roofing the entire home and putting down roof decking where none was originally installed?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Residential construction is bottom-of-the-barrel in general. You'd be shocked at how often stuff like this comes up. Cheap developers, cheap/unethical builders, etc. Don't even get me started on the sales schlubs...

Anyway from the sound of it I'd be very, very surprised if there's no rot. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. That said, there are other ways to protect under the shingles and at the valleys/changes in pitch on the roof. It sounds like a more detailed analysis is necessary but just because you don't see sheet metal doesn't necessarily mean it's detailed or built poorly (however, hearing about all the other problems doesn't exactly inspire confidence).

This sounds like a re-roof job to me. I know you don't want to tell her that, but you can only keep slapping duct-tape and chewing-gum solutions on the problem for so long...

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Jeff,

Thanks! Yes, I don't want to tell her she will need to do the whole thing. I was hoping we could band-aid the majority and give her three years or so to save to do the whole thing. I believe the north side will have to be done this summer...

[dad911]

Although the 'building code' didn't require it 15 years ago, if there is only gable vents, there is probably not enough ventilation. We use ridge and soffit vents now.

Sounds like there is not enough ventilation.

It is not typical to run flashing along the bottom of the roof, by the gutters. It is, however, typical to use 'ice and water shield' in valleys and along the bottom, in areas where icing is common in winter.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Can you please explain what ice and water shield consists of? I am under the (possibly) mistaken belief that an aluminum sheet will provide a shield against an ice dam. Could this be installed in the area where there is no decking under the roof shingles? Should she be looking at re-roofing the entire home and not waiting a few more year? I wonder if this lack of a deck could have been considered as a way to vent the attic? I'm voting on shoddy construction.

I still believe the home inspector should have found these issues.

[dad911]

There should be decking/plywood/osb sheathing under the shingles. Sometimes, like on an 'A' or a rake, they will nail the trim boards against the sheathing, and run the roofing out over it. But otherwise, there should be sheathing under shingles.

Ice and water shield is sticky on one side, and adheres to the roof sheathing. We use it along the bottom of the roof, and sometimes in valleys. It is also a good product to apply against the side of the house where concrete/masonry meets a house, (like front steps) to prevent leaks & rotten wood behind the masonry.

Per National Building code, there should be 1 Square Foot of ventilation for every 150 sq. ft. of attic space. Less for power ventilators.

And there should be a gap where the attic insulation meets the roof, so there is cross ventilation from the eaves.

The above is relatively recent, past 10 years or so. Not common 20 years ago.

If there is no decking, what is holding up the roofing?

[Heel n Toe]

With what you said about what you found structurally, this is the type of house that comes apart really fast in even the weakest tornado. Lawd, they just don't make 'em like they used to, huh?

Ask around and find out who is an honest, well-respected contractor in the area and have him meet you there and give you an assessment of what he would recommend as a minumum for getting things fixed properly, and there is nothing wrong with telling him that the owner would love to do a complete redo, but money is an issue.

Is there enough soffit so that some soffit vents could be installed? If so, get a price on that.

Also, re: ridge vents; you can get ridge vents that have a strip of zinc running the full length of each edge and that will go a long way towards retarding mold growth, if not eliminating it entirely.

I would bet the builder used the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel shingle. Try to at least use a higher quality product on anything that is replaced.

[911Rob]

OMG!
A house built to building code!!! YIKES.
Better sue the builder and the realtor.

Find out who the roof shingles are manufactured by, get some proof of the date of installation and then call the manufacturer. They will reimburse her for the balance of the 20 year shingles that need replacing.

Post some pics of the house, that will help.
I doubt its as bad as you think?

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Guys,

I am going back after the rains to finish some plumbing work and fill in a 4' hole I dug Sunday. I'll get some photos.

I know it is hard to believe, but the decking/sheathing does not go all the way down the roof and the end shingles have nothing under them.

Sorry, there are sufficient soffit vents. It is the venting out of the top of the roof that appears to me to be missing.

Thank you for the wealth of information!!! I know some things and think I know others! I greatly appreciate the primer!

(Yeah, the builders in the area of this home have a HORRIBLE reputation!!!) I've been spoiled. The home I grew up in was built by the builder who lived next door. The home we built was built VERY well (you could run a string line on a 30' interior wall and not have a bump, only one low spot in the 2800 sqft concrete pad). This home was built by the builder for his own family to live in ~50 years ago.