Anacdotal story from 30 something...

I had some nice Marvin windows put in a few years back. Got the hard sale/sign now from one guy, then ended up calling these folks http://www.classicinstallation.com/ when I saw the van in the neighborhood.

I was 36 and the owner came to meet me. Not too much chat, straight forward pricing, not the cheapest, but I knew he did work in the area and felt 'comfortable' with him. They did a nice job and i had them back the next summer to do a bay window.

features... local to me, saw van proudly displaying company info in hood, simple website, not pushy.

look, your approach is all well and good........if you're swamped with work and have a two year backlog. If that is the case, congratulations on your success. But it appears that Milt does not have that luxury and is having trouble closing jobs. In that case, a website, brochure, etc could greatly benefit him.

Pretty broad brush JR. I'm 29 and don't meet any of your stereotypes. I've been living on my own since 18 and spent 6 years working construction full-time before going back to school to become an engineer. I was a full-time student and worked full time while supporting my wife and two kids. Within my group of friends, I've venture to say that none of them meet your stereotypes either.

By the way, starting a sentence with "don't take this personally" is a red-flag that you're going to say something personal. Why sugar coat it, just be an ass.

As for this youngun, I do all of my own repair and remodeling. Why? Because most contractors are unethical, unprofessional, and lazy. The few times I do hire someone (like A/C work last summer), I ask for referrals. I don't fight over price, because I'm confident in the work that is being done.

So everyone beneath mr. grizzled old contractor should work on a per hour basis and everyone above should pay on a per job basis.

why?

because mr grizzled old contractor has an EIN and put an ad in the phone book.

yeah, right.

That is the A#1 complaint I hear from customers. " I called three other guys and they never called me back."

I'm not saying that there aren't a bunch of worthless contractors out there. You and I both know the business is full of them. That's nothing new, nor is it unique to construction. There are worthless individuals in all walks of life.

I also never said you shouldn't get more than one bid, or a bid with a breakdown of the costs. Every bid I submit is against two other companies, or more, and an architect goes through it with a fine toothed comb. I have no issues with that, because I always put more work into my bids than my competition. The closer they look, the better I look.

I work in commercial construction, so it's a little different than home re-modeling, but I am dealing with people of the age group that Milt was concerned with in his original post. I am just relating my experience over the last 10 or 15 years in dealing with people that don't have the skills to do the job they are paid to do and lack the desire to improve. Blame them, or blame upper managment for putting them in that position, I don't care. Either way, it does not bode well for the future of our country.

For the record, I do business with companies that are so well known that everyone in the US will be familiar with them. Everyone. My contracts are fairly high-dollar, given the nature of what I do. The people that I "work for" typically have zero knowledge of construction and zero training in management. They cost their company money every day that they come to work. I find this to be unacceptable,as sooner or later the costs trickle down to me, the consumer. This was not a problem when companies had people performing these same jobs that actually knew the business they were engaged in. I used to deal with in-house licensed architects. They got rid of those older guys and promoted people with no real education or skills.

Look around you. It's happening everywhere.

JR

If you're the exception to the rule, so be it. I don't know you, so you may be right. Do me this favor, though. When you turn 50, look back on your life and reflect a little. Ask yourself how much you really knew about life when you were in your 20's and 30's. The answer will probably surprise you. It did surprise me....

And I'm not an ass. I'm unethical, unprofessional, and lazy, apparently, but I'm really a nice guy.

Cheers,
JR

At some point in the past you were likely young, inexperienced, and over your head. Fortunately some older jackass didn't fire you, and instead let you develop into the picture of perfection that you claim to be today.

Coming from someone that is relatively young and in a management position, your post is blatantly offensive. I'm relatively new to my job, but perform it more efficiently than some of my peers with 20+ years of experience. You seem to believe that everyone of a certain age-group is dumb, lazy, indifferent, and dis-interested in improvement. It's ironic, because by disregarding these people you eliminate any opportunity for YOU to learn from THEM. I'm sure your arrogance will simply lead you to roll your eyes at that comment, but everyone in life has something to offer, and every day is an opportunity to learn something new.

In the end, you simply come across as a bitter old man, complaining about "these damn kids today".

I will happily acknowledge that I don't know a damn thing. In 30 years, I'll give you the same answer. "The first step on the road to wisdom is admitting that you don't know anything".

You know, I'm not trying to offend you. I'm simply offering up my experience in dealing with some really big companies, that used to do a better job than they do now. Like I said before, maybe the problem is with upper management, for putting people into a job they are not trained to do. Consider out-sourcing; I think that is a huge mistake also and it will bite us in the butt sooner or later. At the end of the day, the problem is real and it is pandemic. Ask yourself how many Fortune 500 companies are healthy today.

As for the bitter old man comment, the older generation has always complained about the next one. It's nothing new. The old farts can't stand the new music, either. Sound familiar?

JR

When it comes to sales, people want a reasonable price and good quality, but all else being equal THEY ARE GOING TO HIRE SOMEONE THEY LIKE.

As painful as it is to admit, not all of us are naturally likeable. When I first started my business I went to great lengths to explain how I was qualified and tell prospects what all I was going to do for them. My close rate was fair at best. After reading the classic, "The Best Salesman in the World," I changed my method and now my close rate is very high. The difference? Instead of educating potential clients about me and what I can do for them, I now ask questions. What do you need? What do you want? What are your past experiences with similar services? I got a referral recently and during an initial half hour phone meeting I didn't do much more than ask those three questions. The woman talked about herself and her business for half an hour and at the end of our conversation told me how she could tell I was someone she could work with. I laughed to myself as I had hardly said a word.

Like it or not, we're all salesmen who use sales skill every day. We can all benefit from understanding that fact. If you haven't read "The Best Salesman in the World" I'd highly recommend it. It's a very quick read. There are some religous overtones you may or may not agree with, but the principals in this book apply in any field - sales or not.

Thanks much for all the replies. I can see through all this like a freshly washed pane of glass. I really don't want to deal with what I thought I didn't want to deal with. You guys put the lid on the can.

BTW, I was asked to do some welding by 2 members of this BBS who are also 30 somethings (or close enough). I explained what I always explain and never heard back. Obviously I have a problem, but I'm not going to build a freakin' website showing what I've done with cars. All you have to do is come here to see.

Well, that's where these 2 chaps started out, right here. So, what was there to tell them? No, I don't give hand jobs with my work. I do what I'm expected to do and about 50% more mostly at no charge. You do not see that, get hosed.

I had a long conversation with another contractor yesterday who is one year older than me (63) and has had a parallel career right here in the LB. He really is the master of the art with a huge shop that builds everything from scratch. The common theme through out the conversation was about what dicks we really are and how many dicks are around both older and younger.

I'm not pandering to anyone from this day on (as if I was ever going to). I'd rather deliver mail that put up with what has been affirmed here. Those that want me to work for them and can say please and thank you will get the same back from me twice over.

The rest can kiss my ass.

Milt, what you said in your post #26 shows you are on top of things... the photo albums are definitely a good thing, and people of all ages should be able to deal with you professionally, as there doesn't seem to be anything unreasonable in your approach... especially the fact that you are not high pressure... that is the thing that will run people off like crazy.

Just keep doing what you're doing.

Just remember: you aren't doing them a favor by working for them. And I always say please and thank-you.SmileWavy

As someone on the shallow end of said generation, I can assure you that things aren't going to magically get easier anytime soon.

Most people here have hit it on the head as far as the analysis goes.
As far as how to fix the inherent problems seen is another can of worms. The communication breakdown that seems to engulf everyone from the ages of 15-30 right now only adds to the underlying problem of not being able to value certain aspects. .....



...Maybe if you send bids via text messaging, they will 'get it'. :-(

"No one knows nothing."

I can't stand the music either. What does that say about me?:p

Sounds very similar to the sandler sales system.

The goal: Find the customers pain.

The technique: Just ask "what do you need/want/expect?"

And you wonder why you have no work. Your attitude sucks, and you don't even try to hide it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 4636633) Just remember: you aren't doing them a favor by working for them.

The problem AINT the 30 somethings....it's Milt.

You have good taste? :D

JR

I'm not offended. I think there is a certain lack of humility in my generation (I'm 39). The mass media has permeated every aspect of our lives. Real human tragedies like war and famine become just another note in the media blare. And with the latest generation of web services like Facebook(kind of old now...) and twitter, its YOU thats the star of the show. People expose their entire lives to the world. Cause its all about them.

I have indeed spent most of my working life in front of a computer screen, and yes I am a bit ADD. Not uncommon in Seattle.