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- - Police chase ends with a boot to the head... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/474348-police-chase-ends-boot-head.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper (Post 4669015)

Don't have to be an expert to be a juror, do you?

Do you?

What's that sound?

Is it...crickets.....?

And i am not really sure i even agree with you. As a soldier we had pretty extensive use of force training for riot control and the like.
Proper use of force is also of extreme concern to anyone in bail enforcement, though we had far broader powers than the police for the suspects we were taking down. Still couldn't kick totally unarmed and non-resisting suspects in the head though.

Because the term for that is "assault."

But go ahead, make your rational case as to why that was a justifiable use of force.

The cop didn't even approach in a tactically sound fashion- he should have circled around behind to clear the line of fire for his fellow officers and to get into the suspects rear quarter.
The suspect was spread eagle, non resisting, and unarmed, and there is an extremely high chance that the cops dept. doesnt allow direct blows to the head unless absolutely neccesary in any case, as most dept's (if not all?) depts. have banned such blows for liability/safety purposes.

There was nothing sound at all about what the cop did. It was totally unsound tactically, almost certainly a violation of departmental use of force policy, and was obviously motivated by frustration and a want for pay back.

That cop was as wrong as the day is long. And so is anyone that wishes to defend him.

Complete nonsense!

You should stop talking about something you obviously have NO understanding of.

Does part of your expert soldier riot control training involve chasing a subject, by yourself, into an unknown area that could be occupied by his fellow possibly armed partners? Let alone the possiblilty that he too could be armed? It's not fair to make the judgement call you are because you may know some of the facts AFTER the incident occured that were ABSOLUTELY unknown to responding officers.

As a bail enforcement agent, use of force is of great concern? LMAO!!!! Please give me a break! Do you have any swampland in FL I can pay top dollar for too? I call BS as you really are completely not credible now!! Local Police could give a flying EFF what you guys to to these scumbags, as long as you don't kill them! You are doing THEIR job for them, and putting yourself in harms way, making it safer and easier for their patrol.

Sound tactics? Um.. What P.O.S.T. Academy training have you received? No disrespect meant, however, Riot Control tactics are COMPLETELY different than that of the scenario we debate! I know, as I receive a week of annual refresher training for BOTH! The tape DOES NOT show where the other responding officers are, and I saw no other officers with guns drawn. Line of fire? Your full of BS!

I'd say the officer stayed close to his upper body as too keep an eye on his hands or any sudden movements. Your reasoning for him being compliant and un-armed?
I'm now wondering if you really are a formerly trained soldier or not... Anyone combat trained, or police academy trained, knows that a felony suspect MUST be considered ARMED and a THREAT until he has been properly placed in mechanical restraints and SEARCHED. The approaching officer MUST treat the suspect as such. Are you effing kidding me? I think you're a wannabesniper... Certainly not a real one...

I don't think you could tolerate being a juror, as you would be forced to actually hear ALL of the evidence, instead of the 10 seconds that you focus on... Better for you would be radio talk show host, or tv news anchor. Cut to the chase and twist portions of the incident down to a 10 second video clip that will get the most ratings possible!

And boys, the Thin blue line is toed.

Attack anyone who questions the right of the gestapo to use whatever force they feel like using. Call names, deflect, babble, insult.

Fake soldier? haha, i've posted pix of me here in the past in that fancy green uniform we got. I have tons of em, want to see more? Just say the word.

And talk about delusional...

The suspects armed partners? Now who's making crap up?
When the suspect flees on foot, he is being pursued by multiple units, who would all be pursuing from the same direction- hence the cop would be potentially blocking their line of fire as they caught up and approached.

And sorry, you are absolutely trained to approach from the rear quarter when possible(at least the cops around here are). We certainly were as soldiers.
Armed? The man had no shirt on and his pants were falling the hell down. And if he is armed, it's all the more reason to get into his rear quarter to deny him LOS, AND not close to melee range with him. Charging right up into his frontal quarter and kicking him like that is putting you in prime position to get taken down/tackled as you swing your leg or to get shanked. It's much safer and more tactically sound to circle around behind him, maintain your distance, and keep him covered until backup arrives. If you do want to approach, by doing it from the rear the perp cannot see your approach, and is in much worse position to tackle or attack you as you close with him. This is obvious common sense.

And seriously, show me any current cop manual that reccomends kicking prone-spread eagled surrendering suspects in the face or head. That was almost certainly a violation of departmental policy. Of course you didn't even bother to address that part. I suppose i if i was a juvenille like you i'd accuse you of being a fake jailkeeper at this point. (eye roll)

No concerns for use of force in bail enforcement? Wow, you should tell that to the guys that get sued for excessive use of force or the ones that get made scape goats off by DA's or over-zealous cops. Talk about calling BS.

I've had stupid ass cops ask me, and i quote, "What are you wearing body armor for," as they had us up against the side of cars, totally clueless as they are, "this is illegal you cant have this." We can't? Erm, right, sure cop. Call your supervisor, because you're clueless.
My fave, "What do you have a gun for?" Or even better, "What do you have pepper spray for?"

I bet you think the Rodney King video was a sound use of force too. LOL, what a dumbass.

Tolerate me being on a jury? You have some say in such matters? I know damn well you wouldn't want me on one though, because i actually look at the cop's version of events with a critical eye, and i wouldn't just buy whatever BS story you dopes were selling.

You are one seriously deranged mofo. Living walking, talking proof of why civilian review boards are a neccessity.

At lease these five guys in Alabama were fired.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/alabama.police.beating/

Quote:

Originally Posted by willtel (Post 4676343)

At lease these five guys in Alabama were fired.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/alabama.police.beating/

Damn.

Yeah but there was a perceived threat. I thought the unconscious perp was reaching for a gun, so I had to subdue him with 5 or 6 haymakers while he was face down in the mud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 4676374)

Damn.

Yeah but there was a perceived threat. I thought the unconscious perp was reaching for a gun, so I had to subdue him with 5 or 6 haymakers while he was face down in the mud.

THAT is why I couldnt be a COP (looks like these guys shouldn't either - lol) - If I saw a fellow officer run over by a Mofo - I would do the same thing.

Yeah,

Any info on the injuries to the cop that was run over? Looks like he may have broken a leg???

Quote:

Originally Posted by willtel (Post 4676343)

At lease these five guys in Alabama were fired.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/20/alabama.police.beating/

Our resident "experts" will be here to explain to all us stupid "laymen" why that video shows a righteous use of self defensive force any second now....

I couldn't be a cop either (said this many times), i'd have done the same thing. But it doesn't matter what i'd do, i don't have a badge and a gun and a mandate to uphold the law.

"A man's got to know his limitations."

I know this is an old thread but this information is new. No charges will be filled against the officer, unbelievable.

TBO.com - News From AP

Quote:

Los Angeles County prosecutors have decided no charges will be filed against a suburban police officer who kicked a surrendering suspect in the head after a dangerous car chase.

Deputy District Attorney Jason P. Lustig wrote in a decision Tuesday that evidence indicated the kick by El Monte Officer George Fierro was likely an attempt to stun or distract gang member Richard Rodriguez.

Rodriguez, a parolee heavily covered in gang tattoos, was lying face-down on the ground during the May 13 incident, which was broadcast by a TV news helicopter. After four officers converged on Rodriguez, two of them did a "high five."

Rodriguez's attorney, Nick Pacheco, told the San Gabriel Valley Tribune that he plans to file a lawsuit because the city of El Monte has denied his client's claim for $5 million in damages.

Fierro should have held his gun on Rodriguez and waited for backup, Pacheco said.

"Instead he kicked him in the head," he said.

A telephone message from The Associated Press seeking comment from an attorney for the El Monte Police Officer's Association was not immediately returned Wednesday.

The decision not to file charges was denounced by the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California, which issued a statement Wednesday calling it "deeply disturbing."

The incident began with a 30-minute auto pursuit through eastern Los Angeles County. The fleeing car went on sidewalks and sped through intersections before it crashed in Pico Rivera and the driver jumped out.

News helicopters following the pursuit showed Rodriguez giving up after running into a back yard. He was down on a lawn with arms and legs spread when Fierro - pointing a handgun - ran up and kicked him in the face.

In deciding against charges, Lustig indicated that Rodriguez lifted his head slightly as Fierro approached, which provoked the kick.

"The physical evidence of Rodriguez's injuries are significantly more consistent with a blow intended to stun or temporarily distract him than with a kick done out of anger or vindictiveness," Lustig wrote.

Lustig also concluded that another officer's use of a flashlight to strike Rodriguez while one of his hands was under his body was justifiable because the known gang member could have been reaching for a weapon.

The "high five" is a common gesture signaling that the suspect was captured and no one was hurt, he wrote.

"In sum, Rodriguez clearly demonstrated that he did not want to go back to prison and was trying to escape at all costs," Lustig wrote. "Fierro was presented with a highly dangerous and unpredictable suspect who appeared to have no regard for human life."

El Monte police Chief Thomas Armstrong told the Tribune he was pleased with the decision and that Fierro will return to patrol after being assigned to desk duty since the incident.

"Officers do have to make decisions in a split second," he said.

ACLU staff attorney Peter Bibring said the organization "appreciates the difficult, split-second decisions police must make in the heat of the moment" but the authority given to officers "must be used lawfully."

Only occasionally does the California Judicial System get it right. This is one of those times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willtel (Post 5097409)

No charges will be filled against the officer, unbelievable.

Maybe because there was no law broken? What a concept... SmileWavy

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinP73 (Post 4663226)

From what I see the kick to head was a defensive measure to insure the officers safety. In every felony stop I've seen (even if it was only on tv) the arresting officers manage the scene by preventing the bad guy from seeing what is going on around them. They approach the bad guys from behind for a reason. If the fleeing gangster could see the officer was alone he might be more inclined to continue the fight. A scene is not under control until the bad guy is in cuffs. Just laying down doesn't mean the fight is over, it means the bad guy has taken the fight to the ground perhaps where he would prefer it to be.
That little kick to head was nothing compared to the "jumping in party" this gang banger had when he became a banger.
You can cite civil rights decisions all you want but personally I think that once you've tattooed your face up with gang signs and have chosen to victimize society as a way of life I think you've given up your rights to a fair trial. I think cops should be authorized to shoot you in head with out so much as a warning. This society has turned into a bunch of pussies who are afraid to stand up to these criminals.

Want to join my team and go to Afghanistan? We leave soon.

Good idea, take those who endorse official misconduct overseas with you. Another international scandal is exactly what we need.