If you could do it over again...

[YTNUKLR]

Would you stay in school as long as you could?

I have only 2 more classes in my major, but it seems there are like 50 classes I would still be interested in taking!

I never thought I was interested in going to grad school (ever), but now that my time is almost up, even if I go work for a while, I feel like I'd like to come back to school at some point.

about me: 22, currently doing neuroscience (mostly biology) and computer science applications to artificial intelligence, thinking about doing something related to CE/EE/ME/Materials Eng. Probably not a PhD. I would like to get into industry/commerce, not become a professor.

Does anyone do a 2nd B.S. degree in Engineering?

[Rick Lee]

If I could do it over again, I'd just pretend to go to college, save my folks the money, work somewhere near my school and have just as much fun. I've never once been asked about my college degree or experience in a job interview and I made it in four years, going part time my last semester. It was a breeze.

[legion]

I busted my ass in college to get the job I have now. I decided what I wanted to do and who I wanted to work for sophomore year, and made it happen.

I did a double-major in four years (finance and computer programming), and took twice as many senior-level "capstone" courses as my friends. I was near suicidal with the workload my last year.

My nine years in the work force have been "easy" compared to college. I played with the idea of grad school, but don't really want to (and it really doesn't help in what I do).

Would I do it again? Hell no.

[Tobra]

I went to school a pretty long time, did a residency, but never did a fellowship, though I suppose the time I spent doing stuff with Brad at the wound care center in Conroe was sort of like a fellowship. I never felt the urge to get a masters in public health or anything like that.


Not everyone is going to benefit from a lot of education. A skilled tradesman, say an auto mechanic, does not necessarily need to have a BS in Metallurgy.

A good education is a nice thing to have, but

[look 171]

It took me 8 years to get out of college. At the age of 14, I knew I wanted to be a carpenter. So I go and chased after it and started working for myself at the young age of 21 doing what ever I can get my hands on. During those early years while in college, I hired my friends to help with projects. Then business grew, near the end of my college career, I was making a lot more then my professors. Finally I struggle to finish. I felt a big load off my chest. What do I do? I go back and start my masters program after taking one semester off. I didn't know how to relax. During undergrad years, I had taking lots of time off to play and travel so I got that off my chest. After one year in the masters program, I still remember that monment very very clearly, I asked myself sitting on a client's roof over looking the Hollywood fwy, wondering what the hell am I doing in school. The classes suck and I hated them. So I quit and never went back. It would not have benefited me in any way what so ever. I would never tell any about it even if I had it. Now if I had the time, I go back and take all the classes I really wanted to take and not have to worry about the freaking grade and getting crap for showing late due a simple thing like work. Also, to tell some professor to @#$%$ off and that I am paying their mortage so just get on with the lecture because its a heck of a lot more interesting then his advice. I really like history.

Jeff

[MBAtarga]

I regret not getting a Master's when it was within easy grasp. Because of my relatively high undergrad GPA in my EE classes, I could have been credited with 15 hrs towards a Master's degree - which would have taken just 2 more qtrs to complete. My dad "suggested" that I go out and get a job and have the employer foot the bill for more school.

About 2 decades later, I did go through an Executive format MBA program around the age of 40. I bought my SC as a graduation gift, hence my userid on Pelican.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I don't like the word "regret". I don't have regrets for anything I've done, but honestly if I could do it all again with the knowledge and experience I've gained to date, I'd do a few things differently:

First off, I think getting right out of high school at age 18 as a smartass punk kid and thinking I'd be fine in college was stupid. I changed majors which cost me an extra year and about another $15k in expenses. This could have been avoided if I'd been a bit more sure of myself and what I wanted to do before I'd started college. As such if I had to do it again, I'd have gone into the service at age 18, stayed for 4 years and THEN gone to college. This way I'd have had my head on straight, been sure of what I wanted to do and (most likely) still gotten my B.S. in aeronautics, but I'd have gotten it in 4 (or fewer) years and on the GI Bill (free, or certainly discounted). I'd have been out at age 26 with all the same skills, background, ratings and experience necessary to succeed. I'd also have had the benefit of military service history, which is never a bad thing.

Instead of getting into airport planning and design after graduation, I'd have aggressively pursued a flying job (i.e. instructing or commercial flying) right away. I did end up doing these things years later (and I'm getting back into it now), but if I'd done it right after I graduated instead of deciding to go into design work and ultimately pursue a graduate degree in architecture, I'd probably have gone a lot further in aviation. I do think that "hedging" myself in two different areas as I did was smart, but today I question if I put too much time/energy/money/emphasis into my architectural training. I got out of undergrad in 1995. If I'd done the military service route as I suggested above I'd have gotten out in 1997 - not much different. If I'd gone "balls to the wall" into aviation right then, I'd have had decent experience "in industry" (4+ years) by the time 9/11 happened and wiped out a lot of the flying jobs. No guarantee I'd have made it through the ensuing downturn/recession without a furlough or layoff, but if not, it'd have THEN been a good time to go back and get my second degree or to pursue something else for a while, rather than doing it from 1996-1999 as I did.

Another thing I'd do differently is that I'd absolutely not have pursued my graduate degree in architecture. I love the practice of design and I'm good at it, but it's a crappy industry populated by too many liars, cheats, manipulators and snake-oil salesmen with little or no vision and who can't think beyond their own next boat payment - certainly not what's in the best interest of our industry/profession as a whole and our social responsibilities. It's a dying profession (sadly) that is badly misunderstood by the public and which can't get out of its own way. By this I mean that there's no organized effort to increase public understanding and awareness of what exactly architects do and why we're necessary. Instead most developers (stupidly) assume that all the technical knowledge can be done by either engineers or construction managers, and architects are simply overhead to be cut out when/where ever possible ("all they really do is make pretty pictures and pick colors, right?") And when you get a "professional society" like the AIA which only knows how to pat itself on the back and invent new awards to kiss the asses of its own (paying) members year after year in order to suck up to them in order to get them to renew rather than lobbying for better protections of the profession and looking out for what's in its collective best interest, it pisses me the hell off. The AIA is an organization which epitomizes everything wrong with the profession - it's extremely full of itself and focuses on EXACTLY the wrong things. We're our own worst enemies. There's no way I'd have gotten my master's in architecture again. Not a chance. It took way too long, cost way too much and ultimately has done nothing to help me out in the current economy (construction/development is D-E-A-D and it's not coming back anytime soon thanks to the housing bubble and its associated scheisters - residential developers, agents, lenders, etc.) Any industry even remotely connected to it is in trouble for a long time (and unfortunately this includes architectural design). So forget it. I'm done.

I'm grateful for the opportunity to have gone to graduate school and for the doors it opened for me, but in retrospect I think I'd have stuck with flying airplanes. I'm good at it, it comes naturally and when I look back on all the jobs I've had in my life, I was the most happy, satisfied and content when I was flying. It paid poorly (one of the reasons I walked away from it once) and by contrast when things were good, I was making damn good money as an architectural project manager, but ultimately looking back on it, it wasn't nearly as fulfilling. It's just riding a desk dealing with a bunch of (mostly) cheapass imbiciles with big egos and attitudes and trying to get them to STFU and do their damn jobs and get a simple sequence of tasks done in the proper order, as they've agreed to do. It's not very rewarding work, honestly. When I was flying cargo, I had my reward every time the wheels went "chirp" on the runway at the end of a successful flight/mission. I miss those days. I hope to have them back soon.

I'll probably still do some architectural work on my own time, but only as a side venture. I think I'm done doing it as a career. Not really where my heart is anymore and I'm thankful that I know there's something else out there I can do (and I have the experience/background/licenses for) for my bread-and-butter, while being able to still do my design work for myself as a hobby of sorts.

I guess the short version of all this is I'd probably end up in more-or-less the same place as I expect I will, but I'd have done it in a way that was a bit more logical and didn't put me through such expense and abuse in order to get there. There was a simpler path to get to the same destination and while I don't regret my journey, I'd probably have worked harder trying to find that particular path if I had to do it again...

[YTNUKLR]

I know everyone is different--that's why I asked. I am seeking the advice of the collective.

I am not interested in more education because I'm "sure" it will lead to more money and all that. I guess, I have pretty much done what I was interested in, and if I wasn't interested in it, I changed paths. As much as I care about finances, I'd rather be poor doing something good than rich doing something bad. For humanities I think you can just sit in on a class and learn a lot. No doubt. At least for me, if I am going to learn some hard science, I need to be tested, do homework problems, do labs, etc. In short to learn Engineering I personally would need to be working on a degree at some university and having grades/professors hanging over my head and pushing me along.

I entered in Mechanical E, because I was into cars. When I was a freshman, I didn't really think much of all the math, and it seemed to "narrow" to me because I liked history and economics and most of the random other classes (buddhist studies or latin anyone?) I took. Long story short I ended up doing brain modeling, fMRI extracurricular work-lots of UNIX, having to take some other Math and Stat courses, and computer modeling (probability models and such). Now I realize why they make you take tons of Physics and Math for Engineering and Computer Sci-and I *want* to do it now if possible. It looks like I can take care of all the prerequisites next year, so I guess I kind of know my answer. I wasn't in the right place mentally at 18, like Jeff is saying.

"Regret" is not a word I use though. What I/you did was the right decision at the time. It's water under the bridge.

I like circuits and hardware and materials science. I can transfer a number of my computer science classes into EE, whereas I only have Thermodynamics from ME done. Also, as I've gone through here, I've realized M.E. is less interesting from a purely theoretical standpoint than I think Physics is. I have enjoyed my time building Porsche engines and will continue to do so, especially side projects and hobby work, but I want something else for my bread and butter. I've thought about officer training. Does the military help you with a 2nd Bachelor's?

I was just wondering if I am totally stupid -for getting this idea and taking off with it- or 20 years from now, wishing I did it.

Right now my schedule for Fall is:
Physics A for Sci/Engineers
Multivariable Calculus
Cognitive Science 100 - to finish my major
EE 20: Structure and Interpretation of Systems and Signals

Spring 2010:
Physics B for Engineers
Linear Alg. & Differential Eqn's
Cognitive Science - MATLAB programming to finish neuroscience major
Engineering 45 ; Properties of Materials

[pwd72s]

Scott...if you're going to do anything...now is the time...before wife and children enter the picture. Things become more difficult when others are dependent on you. So, if you want that advanced degree...or change your course of studies, go for it now! This is the time of life for you to self explore.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Agreed.

Yes, the military will help you with a 2nd bachelor's if you want. Talk to a recruiter. You can either get up to $65k to pay off your student loans (if you have them) or GI Bill eligibility if you want to pursue another degree. Having a B.S. or higher makes you eligible for OCS which helps.

Yes, this is another option I'm seriously considering for myself right now and I've been researching it extensively.

They're gonna' love you as one of them liberal Berkeley hippie boys though...

[YTNUKLR]

How'd ya know?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Another thing to consider in your situation might be a MBA. Seriously - as a technical guy you'll do fine, but long-term if you can show the ability to MANAGE people in a technical field, you'll make way more $$$. If that's important to you. I know pushing myself to get into project management rather than "typical" architectural production-type work helped me enormously. Even if you don't do a formal MBA type program, at least take some courses in management areas to demonstrate you have knowledge/skill in that area - and don't be ashamed of it. Get a PMP Certification if you're an engineer too - that'll help.

Technical guys make good 5-figure incomes. Management guys are the ones that can make the 6-figure ones.

There's also a lot more to life than money (as I kind of alluded to above). So figure out what's important to you long-term. Just some thoughts as this thread evolves...

[YTNUKLR]

It's crossed my mind. But, I thought I would think about an MBA after I got work experience-that is the main thing business schools care about.

Berkeley offers some Management, Finance and Accounting classes through Haas Business school over the summer, no admission required. So, there is that open if I don't want to pay $100k for an MBA. Classes are like $900 per, from a top3 school.

It looks like I could finish a B.S. in engineering within 3 years from today, i.e., 2 years after getting my B.A. As a CA resident living in university housing project, college has been $17k per year including food and everything. Beats the $56k my friend's Dad paid to send him to Columbia (*apples to apples)!

I feel moving up the ladder might be the eventual plan. But, I really do have some academic interests that I want to satiate before it's too hard to do. The reason I say this, the people I know that have graduated from undergrad business school are wankers, with few things to talk about other than how to get a $70k job fresh out of college doing accounting for 60 hours a week.

[looneybin]

jeff, tell us how you really feel about the AIA :-)

the only regret i have is that i screwed around for 4 years after highschool not really knowing what i wanted to do for the rest of my life (partying does not pay the rent well)

wasted 4 years in sales (that REALLY sucked) then went back to college to get my architecture degree

yes the industry has it's issues, but the economy always fluctuates & good times will return.

[MFAFF]

Jeff,

I hear you but disagree....
Architecture is what YOU make of it...its is such a wide profession (in the true sense) of the word that you can do whatever you want and enjoy it.

There are no limits as to what you can do in the profession, be it technical, managerial, financial, in 'sales', in 'politics', in debt.. always..

The ethos you bring to your work ends up being the defining character of where you end up working and with whom.

But to get back to the OP... college education is never wasted if you are doing what you love and can either at the time or later extract the right lessons from it.

I spent 10+ years in higher education.. had I not done so I would not have been able to do what I have done professionally. The door simply would not have opened as hte projects I have worked on are one off never to be repated jobs...the conjuncture of client and site and brief were unique and whilst there are similar jobs I would not have missed them for the world (well the majority of them anyway).

So I wouldn't hesitate to 'do it all' again.. there are events that happened along side that I would NOT repeat.. but that is more 'life' than education.

I'd keep the MBA for later on... the time you spend actually working at what you love will give you a better perspective on why you are doing an MBA .. and give you more motivation to get it done.

But the 5 years I spent in 'education' in the US.. I'd do again in a heart beat (it did help that relatively the course was 'easy' leaving me with plenty of time to push the envelope and have a good time outside college)...

Mind you I'd not want to work in the US as an architect!

[Dottore]

Think long and hard and clearly about what you want to do for a living, and then get the best possible education you can that will get you there.

I would err on the side of getting another degree. This is the only time you'll go to uni. and the degree will be your competitive advantage and meal ticket for the rest of your life.

[The Gaijin]

I never liked school until the relative end of my formal education. Not that I was eager to graduate, just that I was doing the coursework and had the freedom to do what I loved.

I am happy the way my higher education and college experience set me up for life - I think I am still capable of learning new things, and continue to take classes now and again and read.

Education should be for life - not something you turn off when you get out of school.

[Kaliv]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Education should be for life - not something you turn off when you get out of school.

Definately. I graduated college with an engineering degree and said I would never go back. A few years in industry, and here I am going back to school through online programs. Allows me to still work full time and get more education. I do it now because I want to...not because I need a job. Education should be a life time thing...don't ever stop. In fact, it doesn't necessarily need to be a degree, it could be a certification. Or even just read books. I do all three, and will continue for as long as I can.

[island911]

Originally Posted by MFAFF

Jeff,

I hear you but disagree....
Architecture is what YOU make of it......

Same goes for under-water basket weaving.

Scott, a mech engineering degree is packed full of all sorts of interesting spin-off points. ...from materials to system control ...economics to pant operation. ...everything in between. (there is a LOT in between) So don't worry about getting too little enough academic well-roundedness. Get it done, and move on to the real world, where you'll have plenty of opportunity to get more depth on any giving piece of your education. (else, hide-out in an MS or phd program for slow exposure while eating Raman noodles) For sure, one of the great things about the degree is the diverse opportunities it provides.

2cents

[nostatic]

My advice is to get as wide a swath of courses as you can. Now is the time - very hard to go back to school later. And you cannot predict what you will be doing in 10 or 20 years, so I'd say follow your interests now in school. There will be plenty of time to work.

My Ph.D. opened doors that would not have been otherwise available. Even in areas that have zero to do with the discipline. It is more about illustrating an ability to learn and solve problems. It isn't the only way, but it is a viable path.

Every choice along the way closes certain options. At 22 in school, I think it is best to explore everything that you can.