gun/self defense guys; what is your take on this pharmcist's actions? video.

vash · vash's Garage

dude got medievel on some robbers. got arrested in the process.

http://krmg.com/blogs/the_krmg_morning_news_blog/2009/05/video-okc-pharmacist-shoots-ki.html

just curious where you guys stand.

porsche4life · porsche4life's Garage

I was thinking of posting this up. I think it is crap. They attempted to rob his store and had guns. They endangered the lives of he and his employees. I think it was totally justified.

Super_Dave_D · Super_Dave_D's Garage

Oh no!! Sniper is gonna love this!!!

He should get an award!

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Certainly justified in the initial shooting. Coming back a while later and putting another 5 in him, not so much.

Tom

legion · 06-01-2009, 12:29 PM

Seems like it is a legal catch 22.

If you put one bullet in a guy, some prosecutors will charge you and say you obviously didn't feel threatened if you didn't empty your magazine.

If you do empty your magazine, some prosecutors will charge you and say you over-reacted.

Rikao4 · 06-01-2009, 12:32 PM

he screwed up..
firing those rounds afterwards..
is like firing a warning shot...
a jury may give him a pass..
but he was wrong..

Rika

968rz · 968rz's Garage

I'm with Tom.
First shot took care of the perp, the next five was over the top.

m21sniper · 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash

dude got medievel on some robbers. got arrested in the process.

http://krmg.com/blogs/the_krmg_morning_news_blog/2009/05/video-okc-pharmacist-shoots-ki.html

just curious where you guys stand.

I don't see it as first degree murder, but it's WAY over the line as to what's legal.

Dude is in deep deep trouble with the law. You just can't be executing people.

An interesting legal question though....what if the coroner rules that the dude was already dead from the first shot. What's the proper charge then? Abuse of a corpse?

Jeff Higgins · 06-01-2009, 12:44 PM

Nowhere in either camera angle can we see what the guy is doing on the floor. If he still had the gun in his hand, and was still moving, he is still fair game. The coroner says the head shot did not kill him - the follow-up shots in the abdomen did. There could be no telling if he was going to get up again, and what he might do if he did get up again. This is no time to be "fair" or to play guessing games. This thug brought the fight to the store owner. The store owner never asked for it. The only rules from his perspective are not to get hurt, and not to allow the thug to hurt anyone else. I would hedge my bets as well.

Any D.A. that would press charges on a case like this needs to be recalled. Hopefully the public outcry will become loud enough to head things in that direction.

This young thug initiated the incident. Anything that happens to him, or anyone else, is his and his partner's responsibility. When they catch this partner, he needs to be the one up on murder one charges. His actions resulted in the death of his partner in crime.

m21sniper · 12:57 PM

Jeff if the guy wasn't laying face down and unarmed your argument would be a lot more reasonable.

But it's hard to argue the guy is still a threat with him laying there splayed out and face down with a gunshot wound to the head.

I am sure the lawyer will try to do just that though, if this goes to trial.

Pazuzu · 06-01-2009, 12:49 PM

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=81445

OK state laws about use of deadly force.

Pazuzu · 06-01-2009, 12:54 PM

This is going to be an interesting case. On one hand, it seems quite obvious that he used excessive force, at a time when he was no longer in danger. On the other hand, OK seems to have some very simplistic requirements on justifiable homicide:

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?citeid=69324&date=

"Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in either of the following cases:

1. When resisting any attempt to murder such person, or to commit any felony upon him, or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person is; or,

2. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of his or her husband, wife, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant, when there is a reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony, or to do some great personal injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or,

3. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed; or in lawfully suppressing any riot; or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace."

Was the robbery in this case a felony? I'm interested in #3 myself...murder is justified if it occurs while attempting to apprehend a felony suspect. Would this *only* apply to police? Can a citizen "apprehend" someone?

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

The article says the dead guy was unarmed, the guy who ran had the gun. It also says the dead guy was unconscious, on his back.

It also says the pharmacist set his gun on the counter, went and got another gun from a drawer and made the 5 gut shots with that one.

Hard to justify that if true.

Tom

m21sniper · 06-01-2009, 12:57 PM

"2. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of his or her husband, wife, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant, when there is a reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony, or to do some great personal injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or,"

Bold added by me.

Oh Haha · 06-01-2009, 12:57 PM

he should have kicked the perp in the nuts for good measure.

Effin' thug got what he deserved. I agree that his parnter that got away should be charged with accessory or something connected to the other thug's death. The store owner should not be prosecuted at all.

m21sniper · 06-01-2009, 01:00 PM

Whether or not you approve of the actual execution, it seems pretty clear that the existing law in OK does nor authorize this sort of act.

I suspect the guy is probably going to spend many years in prison.

Pazuzu · 06-01-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oh Haha

he should have kicked the perp in the nuts for good measure.
Effin' thug got what he deserved. I agree that his parnter that got away should be charged with accessory or something connected to the other thug's death. The store owner should not be prosecuted at all.

I can only assume that OK has the "your buddy dies during a felony, and you get charged for it" law, but I'm not sure. If the other guy is caught, I all but guarantee that he will get a murder rap put on him as well.

Zeke · 06-01-2009, 01:09 PM

That's insane. The store owner, or whoever he is, didn't take much of a look at his gunshot victim before going outside to see if he could ostensibly get a shot off at the other perp. This to me puts the shooter clearly on the offensive going way past his duty to protect the store, the other employees and his merchandise.

No matter what happens, it's the end of his life as he knew it up until this incident. There will be a wrongful death suit, I'm sure. I doubt this guy will ever work again. The perp sure won't.

BTW, that was a pretty good shot given that he was facing a gun himself.

MT930 · 06-01-2009, 01:11 PM

I would recommend a gun in a heavier chambering for the first shot. Short 12 Ga would be my pick.

The five finishing shots are going to be an issue. Thats going to be tough to justify.

jyl · jyl's Garage

After returning to his store, the pharmacist walks unhurriedly past the shot robber, exposing his back to the robber, opens a drawer to retrieve a second gun with no apparent haste, then walks upright and unhurriedly back to the robber, leans over the prone man, and fires. Looks very bad.