20 years ago today

[nostatic]

Probably one of the most famous photos and moments in modern history, and certainly a catalyst for global change. The g/f is in Hong Kong and she said there were 150K at a vigil there. She was student delegate at Tiananmen in the Beijing Hotel sending faxes when the shooting started. Then managed to get herself back to HK via trains, vans, and ferries. Crazy.

[Jim727]

Great program on Deutsche Welle last night about Tienanmen and how the gov't has managed to suppress even the knowledge of the event from much of the population. They interviewed a number of students and the response ranged from "it should be remembered" to "couldn't care less - life is good now". There is a group of mothers trying to keep alive the memory of their kids killed in the response to the demonstration. Most of them are under house arrest, it seems.

Courageous kids - have to salute them.

[mattdavis11]

20 years ago today, college kids taught the republic how to play.

[nostatic]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The anniversary in Hong Kong:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8084155.stm

And in Beijing:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-tiananmen-diary5-2009jun05,0,5124681.story

[dd74]

Interesting...

...the tanks' cannons are capped and the machine guns have tarps over them. I thought I noticed that before, but wasn't sure.

[Joeaksa]

BBC news is just showing a special on it. Good to see it as you will NOT see it on any Chinese TV.

[tabs]

It was 20 years ago today that Sergent Pepper taught the band how to play...?

[Rick Lee]

I've never met a Mainlander who didn't support the government's actions in that event.

[rouxroux]

"Coming soon, to a square near you"

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by dd74

Interesting...

...the tanks' cannons are capped and the machine guns have tarps over them. I thought I noticed that before, but wasn't sure.

Not the middle one. And if your opposition doesn't have anything more than groceries to oppose you, do you need a gun?

[dd74]

I'm not certain about the middle one. All I'm wondering is:

1) Would that guy have gotten in front of a row of tanks whose weapons weren't covered up?

2) Was the military just trying to make a statement?

3) Was the army slick enough to know TV was watching, so in public, cover the guns up and pretend to be non-threatening, but away from the cameras, slaughter at will?

After all, no one truly knows how many dissidents were killed, right?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by dd74

I'm not certain about the middle one. All I'm wondering is:

1) Would that guy have gotten in front of a row of tanks whose weapons weren't covered up?

2) Was the military just trying to make a statement?

3) Was the army slick enough to know TV was watching, so in public, cover the guns up and pretend to be non-threatening, but away from the cameras, slaughter at will?

After all, no one truly knows how many dissidents were killed, right?

1) yes. The issue was being run over, not being shot. He repeatedly got in front of the moving tank.

2) The govt was making a statement, the military was a pawn. The weapons being covered is likely due more to troop negligence than some master plan.

3) No. The "Army" was a bunch of confused kids at ground zero not knowing what to do until finally something snapped. Tanks cannot really be "non-threatening."

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by artplumber

...if your opposition doesn't have anything more than groceries to oppose you, do you need a gun?

Heck yeah! What if he's coming at you wielding fresh fruit?

I mean, what if he's some great homicidal maniac and comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, or he lunges at you with a passion fruit?


You have to admire that guy though, standing in front of a tank holding nothing but a plastic bag full of groceries. It's a shame you're never going to be able to find him to hear his story.

[nostatic]

You ever smelled durian? That is grounds for self-defense if someone was wielding one.

[Jim Richards]

Lol

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by nostatic

You ever smelled durian?...

I don't think so. Where does she live?

Hold on, I think I'm in the wrong thread.

[Aerkuld]

I find it incredible, and very scary, that a government can supress knowledge of such a huge and significant event.

It does make you wonder...

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

I find it incredible, and very scary, that a government can supress knowledge of such a huge and significant event.

It does make you wonder...

It makes you grateful.

[nostatic]

This actually is a pretty emotional topic for the g/f. After we saw "Brothers at War" we were talking about one Soldier who gave the party line on-camera about it being worth it to die for the cause (and a few others who were a little more ambiguous). She got choked up thinking about the students who died at Tiananmen and the parallels. She went there as a well-meaning student activist, and left disillusioned not only by the govt but also by the student leaders who were in some ways equally as corrupt. We both wondered out loud if it is better to die for a cause not knowing that you're dying in vain or if you should know.

The questions I hope my son doesn't have to answer...

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

I find it incredible, and very scary, that a government can supress knowledge of such a huge and significant event.

The govt. didn't really suppress it, though. The whole world knows about the event. Those involved, well, who knows where they are. The fact is they made their point.