Warning OFF TOPIC subject - question on Tanfoglio guns

[Obin Robinson]

just offhand:

EVERY Italian handgun i've ever shot proved to be nothing but a pleasure. my favourite were a few different Berettas that were just PERFECT. yes they were .22

this Tanfoglio looks kind of cool. i'd say go for it!

my favourite ammo for .22 pistols is the Remington Subsonic ammo. VERY quiet, so that you can use it in a basement range with basic hearing protection and not worry about excessive noise. if you can't get the Remington Subsonic, get the Aguila subsonic ammo. the PMC subsonic stuff isn't very nice, it smells funny and it gums up the pistol action.

good luck!

obin

[gixer02]

leland- HA! funny story!

[Milu]

I've not tried that one yet, but my experience with Tanfoglio is: great value for money. I don't know what the US agents are like but if you have to deal direct with Tanfoglio you'll find they're good people.

[Doug Zielke]

Well guys, this topic did get moved, as I knew it would.

Just speculating, but "Saffs" probably whined about it to one of the moderators until they got sick of him.
He's got a problem...he *thinks* he's a moderator.

So be it.
Thank you Mikkel for info on Danish gun laws. It seems they are as, if not more, restrictive than we have here in Canada.

Now, let's continue this interesting discussion, unfettered as it can be here.

[Dave951M]

While the SIG does shoot rather well, it's a bit pricy. For my everyday plinking pleasure, I use a Ruger MkII with a 6" heavy barrel, only modification is a trigger job. My only complaint with this gun is the poor stock trigger, even with a trigger job, the trigger is still a bit sloppy. If you want a tack driver, get a TC Contender, get an aftermarket target grade barrel, and have the trigger reworked. Out of a Ransom Rest, mine did three shot groups (at 50 yards) of a bit over .5" with CCI Green tag. Eley did as well, but cost more. If the piece is for serious social purposes, get the biggest thing you can control and learn to use it. There is no substitute for mass, velocity and diameter in that context.

On the topic of gun ownership- everybody should know how to shoot. I do have a bit of a "litmus test" for anyone running for office, if I even get a hint of their having any proclivity towards restricting my gun ownership rights, they will not get my vote, I don't care which party they're from. Most bleeding heart liberals who want gun control don't want to face the real problem, and that is making the sob's who commit the crime do the time. Why should I, as a law abiding citizen, allow my rights to be eroded by a couple of political poltroon hacks because of the acts of a wacko? Having been on the business end of a gun before, having been carjacked, shot and left for dead, I have NO sympathy for criminals.

Getting off my soapbox,

[Shakenbake]

Dave, as I understand it there are 5 different MKII models. Which MKII do you have? Standard, Target, Government target, Competition Target or 22/45 model. Who is your gunsmith? I see that you are also from NC.

Chris

[RoninLB]

Not being very experienced in serious social situations I can only comment that a good friend who has many wins in seriously serious social situations uses a Browning 9mm. Placement, Placement, Placement.

[Saffs]

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
Well guys, this topic did get moved, as I knew it would.

Just speculating, but "Saffs" probably whined about it to one of the moderators until they got sick of him.
He's got a problem...he *thinks* he's a moderator.

Ahh, Doug. You made me feel all happy and warm inside just to be here, thanks! But, not even a to indicate some dry humour or sarcasm? Hmmm, someone has a problem, huh?
But seriously:
Your speculating very wrong, Doug. I enjoy discussion and debate, and I won't complain about posts to moderators, and never have. This is a board of many ideas, politics, around the World: it's great to discuss stuff even though we may not agree, right?
Please ask me first about your speculations before you put it here for everyone too see, so at least I can "defend" myself if I don't happen to see a thread again - like, it's a good job I looked here to see this....
So, therefore, let me know about your speculations/questions personally in a PM or email, before you *whine* about me here to everyone over your incorrect speculations - that would be the more straightforward and direct thing to do.
Remind me again, who has the problem....?
I've no desire at all to be a moderator BTW.

Obin

It's not a bad gun. But it doesn't work well with standard .22 ammo. Therefore I tried various types and by that found out that the gun suffer from feeding problems for example with Remington High Velocity .22 ammo. In the end I found out that the pistol works very good with CCI .22 Stinger. Therefore I have been using that ammo ever since. Only disadvantage is that it's rather more expensive than stock .22 (and of course is noiser).

Milu
I have dealt with Tanfoglio directly via e-mail before I decided to buy the gun and even after. They have been polite and helpful. I answered their costumer opinion poll at www.tanfoglio.it and gave them good marks, except for the manual that came with the gun. That is if you would call that a manual

Doug
If only that was it I'm afraid my description is far from comprehensive enough to really explain our legislation. As with so many other areas the legislation is more like a jungle. Confusing, burocratic and different depending on what type of gun you own. Rifle owners have their "own" rules whereas handgun owners (me) have their's etc. etc. I guess it's easier to say that we have very strict rules in general.

[Obin Robinson]

Originally posted by Mikkel
Obin

It's not a bad gun. But it doesn't work well with standard .22 ammo. Therefore I tried various types and by that found out that the gun suffer from feeding problems for example with Remington High Velocity .22 ammo. In the end I found out that the pistol works very good with CCI .22 Stinger. Therefore I have been using that ammo ever since. Only disadvantage is that it's rather more expensive than stock .22 (and of course is noiser).

hmm, i have found certain brands work better or worse than others also. the Remington works VERY well, and it's subsonic as a bonus! still packs a punch however. i also use the CCI stinger, it's very nice stuff. the most powerful stuff i use in .22 is called "Quik-Shok". you don't want to be on the bad end of that when it's fired. it's for knocking down varmints and it creates quite an impact.

check this place out, tell them what you have, and THEY will know the best and least expensive/quiet ammo for your pistol:

http://www.22ammo.com

they even stock tracers for your pistol!

they also do ship internationally. good luck!

obin

[Dave951M]

Chris-

See that you are in CLT, grew up there, moved out, no desire to move back. (It's easier to find places to shoot up here!) I have a MK II Target (although I prefer the "bull" barrel more), I do my own work. Between the TC and the MK II, the TC leaves the MK II in the dust. The downside is that it's single shot, upside, change barrels and you can have anything from a .22LR up to a .30/30 or .45/70GVT. The trigger on my TC took about a day to do and is very crisp at just under 2lbs. (That's in the 'breathe and it fires' catagory.) The Ruger trigger is very different mechanically, about the only thing that can be done short of replacing it with an aftermarket one is to stone the engagement surfaces and retension the sear spring. Must be quite careful here since too much of a good thing makes it unreliable. The MK II trigger is down to about 3.5lbs, but is mushy, with a bit of travel.

I used to compete in IHMSA and found that while my competitors would diddle with the sights between each course, a mere ammo brand change would achieve the same result. A couple of fractions of an inch don't matter much in IHMSA, knocking over the metal plate does. Not having to adjust the sights made it much easier and removed a variable. The guys on the center fire courses were using primarily either a modified Remington 700XP rechambered to .308 or .4570GVT TC Contenders. Either has ample recoil to jellify most wrists, but the results on the steel targets had to be seen to be believed. In IHMSA, a hit didn't count unless the target was knocked from the stands, a "nick" with one of those heavyweights was usually all it took. BTW- there are some targets at 200m in IHMSA, and no scopes are allowed, and this is handguns only! Great FUN but not shot in NC that I know of or else I'd be doing it still.

RonninLB-

A very good friend of mine was faced with the "him or me" situation some time ago. My friend shot first with a 9mm, hit the other guy 5 times, three of which should have been a near instant fatal hit. The crook still ran away about 100yds before finally expiring and relieving us of his presence. Post mortem revealed the crook was under the influence of several substances at the time. Net result, my pal now carries nothing smaller than a .45 with hot loads or Black Talons, most of the time, it's a .44 Mag. For more insight on this type of problem, review the reasons the Army went back to the .45 after the Moro Rebellion in the Phillipines. Seems the natives on the local weed, while sufficiently mortally plugged with .38sw, still had enough steam left to take a couple of soldiers with them. Being one to take the experiences of those who have been there to heart, I still subscribe to the "bigger, heavier, faster" school, not "more shots and I might hit my target" group. (Until I need stronger glasses and then I'll use a 12ga with open cylinder with #1 buck!)

Mikkel-

IN GENERAL--

The .22LR is a "dirty" cartridge. Just look at the amount of fouling and crud generated while firing. Some brands are worst than others about it and a gun with tight tolerances may be more susceptible to feed failures because of this. This doesn't mean that the "tighter" gun is a bad piece, just that different care needs to be taken with it to keep it functioning. Glad to hear you've found shooting is really great fun. Practice often and be safe!

[Obin Robinson]

Originally posted by Dave951M
RonninLB-

A very good friend of mine was faced with the "him or me" situation some time ago. My friend shot first with a 9mm, hit the other guy 5 times, three of which should have been a near instant fatal hit. The crook still ran away about 100yds before finally expiring and relieving us of his presence. Post mortem revealed the crook was under the influence of several substances at the time. Net result, my pal now carries nothing smaller than a .45 with hot loads or Black Talons, most of the time, it's a .44 Mag. For more insight on this type of problem, review the reasons the Army went back to the .45 after the Moro Rebellion in the Phillipines. Seems the natives on the local weed, while sufficiently mortally plugged with .38sw, still had enough steam left to take a couple of soldiers with them. Being one to take the experiences of those who have been there to heart, I still subscribe to the "bigger, heavier, faster" school, not "more shots and I might hit my target" group. (Until I need stronger glasses and then I'll use a 12ga with open cylinder with #1 buck!)

Mikkel-

IN GENERAL--

The .22LR is a "dirty" cartridge. Just look at the amount of fouling and crud generated while firing. Some brands are worst than others about it and a gun with tight tolerances may be more susceptible to feed failures because of this. This doesn't mean that the "tighter" gun is a bad piece, just that different care needs to be taken with it to keep it functioning. Glad to hear you've found shooting is really great fun. Practice often and be safe!

Dave951M:

heh, i know all about the weaknesses of the 9mm. i've heard it from people that have been in those "him or me" situations. they all report identical findings to what you stated. one of my friends upped the ante though. he has a carry and conceal permit for his USP, but if the going gets tough he has a Desert Eagle .50 calibre semi-auto. we shot it a few times and all we could say was "HOLY S***!!!!!!!" you DO NOT want to be on the wrong end of that cannon. i have videos of him shooting it if you want. e-mail me and i can hook you up with the videos.

also, about the .22 cartridge being 'dirty'... oh yeah it is! you can through 6,000 rounds of cheap crappy ammo in an AK-47 and not have the gun jam once. after 500 rounds in my Marlin M60, it's jamming and misfiring with cheap ammo. the expensive .22 ammo will go for about 2,000+ rounds though.

obin

I agree on .22 being dirty and much less reliable than centerfire ammo.

Regarding socalled "stopping power" I never think that people will agree on a conclusion. I once read on a law and order homepage that in the US .22 ammo kills more people than centerfire ammo does. Althought that doesn't say much it's still worth mentioning.

The police here used to have .32 Walther's, but recently they switched to 9mm H&K because many criminals kept running even after getting shot with the .32. A year or 2 ago an immigrant shot a young woman in the head with a .22 revolver because she refused to have sex with him. She survived. Last x-mas a criminal shot a young man in the head with a 9mm for reasons unknown. The victim survived.

Pretty impressive that the victims would survive shots in their heads. Still both of them lost conciousness at the time. So in those cases "stopping power" was suffcient I guess.

[Shakenbake]

Just rented an H&K USP 45 today and shot a box of 50.

WOW!

25 yrds was tougher for me than my son. I was totally embarassed by my 17yr old son. This is the handgun he has always admired/wanted and he amazed me with his skill in handling it. I was able to outshoot him with the Ruger MKII and we were about even with the Glock 17...obviously I need more time with the bigger guns. I tend to pull anticipating the recoil. We are looking for a target rifle for long distance (100-200yrds) if anyone has an opinion...ceb

Shakenbake

I know how you feel. I started shooting together with my younger brother. Both of us had never held a gun in our hand before. Today my brother is far better than me

How dare he be better than his older brother