My cousellor's name was Dr. Love. No kidding.

First meeting was with both of us, usual questions about expected outcomes.

Then he spent a half hour with just her.

She comes out in tears, and sits in waiting room while I go in for my half hour. Doc pulls out a bottle of scotch, pours both of us a stiff shot, and says, "How good is your insurance?" He said he could write a book on her. 6 months later we split up, and Dr. Love DID write a book, which included a chapter on her 'type', but could have been strict biography.

Now THAT is dark comedy.

A classic example of Karma. He was cheating, she was cheating, & the hammer came down.

Ian

As well the longer you wait, the more damage that is being done in her mind.

If you are going to call her, call her shortly. And hopefully when you are sure that the daughters are NOT around.

See if you can meet her for lunch and talk with each other, alone.

Nope, Karma would have both the ex wife and the gyny in the car with him riding the bus and witnessing the accident.

Sorry but this IS karma.

She knows what happened to the guy she screwed around with, and is now waiting for something to happen to her. She will be looking around her shoulder for a LONG time after this.

Non sequitor: ( i.e. hijack lol)

I worked in a failing state in the middle east in the late 1970's early 80's

There was a woman who worked on site with me.. she was in receiving lol

her name was (and I hope she is with us)

Brenda Goodnight....

Great friend and the life of any party...

<<That is all

After considering the sage advice here and doing much soul searching about what I want/need to do, I sent her flowers at work with a note that said "There is one question we need to answer: Do we want to save this marriage? I know what my answer is. Regardless of what your answer is we need to talk. Love, Jim"

The florist ( a mutual friend and a client) called me and said she though they were beautiful, read the note and said "We keep having the same problem over and over." He said she then picked up her cell phone and called someone but apparently didn't get an answer.

Can't read a whole lot into that. Or maybe you can.

At least she didn't throw them at him:D

The ball is in her court. Hope it works out well.

Yup. I can take comfort in the fact that no matter what the resolution, I will be fine.

No matter what, we'll be here for ya.

And there is always a Porsche run that can be made SmileWavy

If she feels that the problem is the same time after time, then you guys need to sit down and talk about it. Thus my comment about lunch.

If the problem is your anger, which you have admitted to, then YOU need to promise to her to get some help for it, but (and this is a big but) make sure she knows that if she was totally honest with you, that you would not be getting mad.

Personally I cannot deal with someone who is not honest with me. That said, you have put up with it for so long and only have a few months to go to hopefully get the girls out of the house, that it might be worth trying one last time to work it out.

Only if I can make my Porsche run:)

Not even a few months....school starts August 8.

The trial lawyer/chess player in makes me overly analytical. She is in a bit of a box. With all the drama over moving out with the girls she likely will feel she'll lose face with them if she attempts to work on it with me. Keep in mind there was no confrontation between me and the girls. I never demanded anybody move.

Plus think how disappointed the girls will be if mom upsets their playing house with bf's (that is where the girls are staying now) by telling them they can move back home with us. And it is clear these girls happiness is a top priority to my wife.

It will be interesting.

On a side note I just glanced at your sig, 1998 Buell S1W: Angriest motorcycle I've ever ridden.

So I googled it. One of the top hits is one for sale.

Nice Avatar the guy has

http://media.scout.com/media/forums/...cing-boobs.gif

Enjoy.

And I hope it all works out.

"angriest ...." comment was from a Ducuti monster owner who rode it one afternoon. My S1W is highly modded with cams, big bore yadadada....it spits and snarls like an angry bull.

I've been through this with my best friend multiple times, his wife is kinda psycho regarding her kids..
You might want to invite the wife back but not the girls... the big questions are;
Will she ever change?
Is all going to be good when the girls go to college ?
What about councelling ?

I was going to suggest flowers with your note . . .

Good luck, Jim.

Ian

Counseling is not something I would rule out. We actually have consulted the pastor that married us in a similar impasse before. Privately he told me the permissiveness was way beyond the norm (and he is a teen counsellor so he knows what parents are allowing). In our meeting together he basically said I needed to find a way to be involved in the girls' lives without being judgmental or emotional about their comings and goings. To wife he said she needed to understand how hurtful it was to exclude me from her life and the girls lives and realize I wwas much more important than she was demonstrating to me by the deception. That I needed to be more of a priority for her.

It was at that point we negotiated the rules of the house.

You say this based on your vast experience with relationships, counseling, knowing my situation? It took a 3rd party to help us realize that it was stupid to stay in an unhappy relationship "for the kids". That by doing so we were modeling the wrong behaviors to them, that we were both not happy and having unhappy parents together is worse than having happy parents apart. Best decision I've made in a long time. I'll always be grateful for that therapist being honest with the both of us and asking the right questions. For years I put my own happiness aside doing what I thought best for my family. I was an idiot and got taken for a long unhappy ride.