at what point is it ok to disobey the flight crew?

[nostatic]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gpzpxENOJlq5qouSmP0wWNjw2BUwD9A09SP80

Hard to believe that this crap happens...

(changed the link snipe)

[m21sniper]

Bro the entire page is obscured by un-closeable ads.

[fingpilot]

Nope. It is unlawful to disobey flight crew as long as you are onboard. Felony unlawful.

No matter how stupid the flight crew are.

[Hugh R]

I think Fing is correct, under the Warsaw Pact, I think they can even shoot you.

[cl8ton]

If I were on that flight, I think I would have made it to the Matt Drudge home page by now!

[svandamme]

airline looking at massive law suit if anybody get's DSV while sitting at the tarmac that long.. you'de think they know about DSV and the risk involved when folks sit that long

[Geronimo '74]

I would fake kidney failure, they would let me off, believe me...

[WilsonTC]

I'd ask for a bottle of Guinness and a sauerkraut sandwich...they'd have to let me off the plane.

[varmint]

47 spend `surreal' 6 hours on grounded plane
By NOMAAN MERCHANT (AP) – 7 hours ago
MINNEAPOLIS — By its sixth hour sitting on a deserted tarmac, Continental Express Flight 2816 had taken on the smell of diapers and an overwhelmed lone toilet.
What should have been a 2 1/2-hour trip from Houston to Minneapolis had moved into its ninth hour, and the 47 passengers on board had burned through the free pretzels and drinks handed out early in their Friday night flight from Houston.
Passengers on another flight that had been diverted to the airport in Rochester, Minn., because of storms were allowed to disembark and were put on a bus that would take them the 85 miles to Minneapolis. And the terminal, where passengers could at least stretch their legs, breathe fresh air and use the vending machines, was a mere 50 yards away.
But it wasn't until 6 a.m. Saturday — six hours after landing — that Flight 2816's passengers were allowed out of the plane.
"It was almost a surreal quality that kind of developed during the night," passenger Link Christin said. "It felt like you were trapped in a cave underground."
In the end, it took 12 hours and a new flight crew for Flight 2816 to complete its journey. There have been longer waits on airport tarmacs in recent years — passengers on a February 2007 JetBlue flight waited 11 hours at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport — but the Flight 2816 delay gives the airline industry another black eye and could give a lift to legislation aimed at preventing such nightmare scenarios.
Continental Airlines on Monday deferred most questions to ExpressJet Airlines, the regional carrier that operated the flight. But Continental did issue an apology to passengers, calling it "completely unacceptable" and offering refunds and vouchers for future travel.
Flight 2816 left Houston at 9:23 p.m. Friday, scheduled to arrive in Minneapolis by midnight. Instead, severe weather forced air controllers to divert the plane south to Rochester, where it landed after midnight.
In Minneapolis, Continental's dispatchers decided to wait out the storms rather than cancel the flight and bus passengers the remaining 85 miles.
Christin said a female voice shouted back asking if anyone wanted a drink.
"And for the next five hours, there was no offer of drink or food," said Christin, a St. Paul resident returning from visiting his father.
The flight was cleared to take off at 2 a.m., but the storms started up again.
The passengers remained calm, Christin said. But he described a difficult environment where sleep was scarcely possible, with babies crying out every 5 to 10 minutes and not enough blankets or pillows to go around.
Adding to the frustration were periodic announcements that led passengers to think they would soon be moving. One announcement said a bus would soon arrive to take them to Minneapolis; an hour later, passengers were told the bus wasn't ready.
At 5 a.m., the flight got clearance again. But by then, its crew had worked more than the legal limit of hours. Another crew had to be flown in.
It wasn't until 6 a.m. that ExpressJet let the passengers off the plane to enter the terminal. And it took 2 1/2 hours for the passengers to re-board the same plane — still with a full, smelly toilet — to head to Minneapolis. They landed at 9:15 a.m., almost a half-day after leaving Houston.
Kristy Nicholas, a spokeswoman for ExpressJet Airlines, said passengers couldn't go to the Rochester terminal to wait out the storms because they would have needed to redo their security screening and screeners had gone home.
The airport's manager, Steven Leqve, said that wasn't true. Leqve said passengers could have waited in a secure area until their plane was cleared to leave.
"This is not an airport issue. This is an airline issue," he said.
The Rochester airport took in another diverted flight, a Northwest plane from Phoenix, just before Flight 2816 landed. The more than 50 passengers on that plane were placed on a bus and made it to Minneapolis by 1:30 a.m.
Leqve said the Delta manager in Rochester offered space on the bus to Continental, which declined.
Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee's aviation operations subcommittee, said the incident underscored the need to pass legislation setting a three-hour limit for an airplane to sit on the tarmac without passengers being allowed off. A so-called passenger bill of rights that would do just that recently passed the Commerce Committee and awaits action in the full Senate.
"There needs to be some common sense used in these cases and it seems to me these folks have a right to complain very seriously about what happened," Dorgan said.
The Air Transport Association, which represents a group of airlines that includes Continental, has resisted the legislation in the past. Spokeswoman Elizabeth Merida said the group continues to believe the legislation "will ultimately end up inconveniencing passengers rather than helping them."
Jim Manley, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said the bill would be considered by the Senate "at some point in the fall."
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

[widgeon13]

Seems to me they could have gotten off the plane and stayed in the gate area. This seems to be a TSA issue, my guess is that if TSA is not available they can't deplane. Why not call some TSA folks in on overtime.

We're not talking Nazi war camp here, WTF were they going to do in the terminal.

My guess is that there will be some legal action on this case and common sense was just thrown out the door.

[ruf-porsche]

They had to make an emergency landing at that airport. The airline don't service that area so they didn't have a gate for them.

[svandamme]

ain't it standard protocol to evacuate the plane if there was a real emergency?

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

They had to make an emergency landing at that airport. The airline don't service that area so they didn't have a gate for them.

Utter nonsense.

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

They had to make an emergency landing at that airport. The airline don't service that area so they didn't have a gate for them.

I had read an article yesterday putting the blame on TSA and how they were not in the airport overnight and letting them (passengers) off the plane would be a security issue.

The entire situation is just absurd. Someone will file a lawsuit for cruel and unusual punishment and I think they deserve more than a free ticket. When will the airlines learn people can not be treated like farm animals.

[rouxroux]

Two words:


EMERGENCY EXITS!!!!!!!!!!

[jyl]

Not a TSA issue. The passengers had gone through security already, no reason they couldn't go into the secure area of the airport.

Kristy Nicholas, a spokeswoman for ExpressJet Airlines, said passengers couldn't go to the Rochester terminal to wait out the storms because they would have needed to redo their security screening and screeners had gone home.
The airport's manager, Steven Leqve, said that wasn't true. Leqve said passengers could have waited in a secure area until their plane was cleared to leave

Just incompetence, indifference, and cost-savings by the airline. The passengers were just 85 miles from home. They could have been bused. They could have been allowed into the airport. They could have spent the night in a hotel.

Flight 2816 left Houston at 9:23 p.m. Friday, scheduled to arrive in Minneapolis by midnight. Instead, severe weather forced air controllers to divert the plane south to Rochester, where it landed after midnight.
In Minneapolis, Continental's dispatchers decided to wait out the storms rather than cancel the flight and bus passengers the remaining 85 miles.

This sort of thing happens repeatedly. The airline industry is not capable of policing itself. The FAA doesn't do anything about it. The free market will not solve this problem, as shocking as that sounds to some of you. Legislation is needed.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by fingpilot

Nope. It is unlawful to disobey flight crew as long as you are onboard. Felony unlawful.

No matter how stupid the flight crew are.

How long can the flight crew keep its passengers incarcerated before their actions are deemed unlawful?

[fingpilot]

Originally Posted by rouxroux

Two words:


EMERGENCY EXITS!!!!!!!!!!

Problem then is you'd have the previous felony, plus TSA on you for violating a secured ramp area of an airport (another felony).

Trust me, I am not supporting the crews' actions. It was not their action/inaction that was at fault. They were ordered to do what they did. The Director of Operations at the airline was at fault.

My action (as a Captain) would have been to go over someone's head to the FAA Certificate Manager (POI) and ask for help. I guarantee you, some 'relief' would have been forthcoming.

There were several things happening all at once here (crew duty day, unfamiliar airport, local airport rules that were stagnant, time of day, and a stupid ops staff at the airline).

My action, as a Captain (above) would probably have gotten me fired after the Federal whistleblower statutes wore off. Don't ask me how I know.


What would I do now? Cell call to an "Action News" local station.

[GH85Carrera]

As much as I hate more government regulations the passenger bill of rights needs to be law. The airlines have you by the power of law. To keep passengers in a cramped seat is torture. It should be against the Geneva convention.

[VenezianBlau 87]

The story's a little different from the original Drudge link. Still, the reasons given for not allowing deplaning are all pretextual, no substance. All those passengers were "under arrest" without knowing it, as federal laws were referenced as the cause of detainment.

It's a long way from arrest to conviction if an e-window seal were to be popped to alleviate my imprisonment.