What ammo do you use? (for carry purposes)

HHI944 · 08-25-2009, 07:36 AM

I carry a 1911 and after a little range/ballistic gel testing, I switched from Winchester Ranger to Hornady XTP +P 230g. They had a little better penetration, especially through a doubled over pair of dead blue jeans.

That said, the thought of ordering a new recoil spring and switching to .45 super has crossed my mind about twice a day for the last two weeks. A 1300fps .45 JHP could drop a friggin bull rhino, it should definitely take care of anything I'd need it for.

I'm also looking at a little 7 shot taurus .357 revolver. If anyone carries .357 I'd like to know what ammo is best.

m21sniper · 09:35 AM

Cor-bon 9x19mm 115gr +P+ JHP.

It brings .357 magnum level terminal ballistics to the 9mm parabellum cartrdige, and it is DEAD BALLS accurate.

I shot this group last week at 10yds with Cor Bon:

avi8torny · 08-25-2009, 07:47 AM

Federal Premium 155 grain or 180 JHP is my preference

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

You're best off carrying whatever your local police carry - more defensible in front of a jury when your lawyer is rebutting charges of carrying overly powerful ammo. That makes it Federal HydrShoks or Speer Gold Dots in my case.

jriera · 08-25-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick lee

you're best off carrying whatever your local police carry - more defensible in front of a jury when your lawyer is rebutting charges of carrying overly powerful ammo. That makes it federal hydrshoks or speer gold dots in my case.

+1

m21sniper · 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

You're best off carrying whatever your local police carry - more defensible in front of a jury when your lawyer is rebutting charges of carrying overly powerful ammo. That makes it Federal HydrShoks or Speer Gold Dots in my case.

Philly PD use crappy std velocity Fed 9BPLE in 9mm. No way i'm saddling myself with that trash.

I don't even really agree with that theory anyway, since it would be just as easy for a lawyer to say, "My client saw Massad Ayoob reccomend the brand and cartridge he used in an article. It was touted as posing the least risk to innocent bystanders due to excessive over-penetration."

Rick V · 08-25-2009, 08:22 AM

I carry 185gr. jhp. Dad reloads so they are a little "hot" I find the 230's drop like rocks in my 45acp

charleskieffner · 08-25-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

You're best off carrying whatever your local police carry - more defensible in front of a jury when your lawyer is rebutting charges of carrying overly powerful ammo. That makes it Federal HydrShoks or Speer Gold Dots in my case.

ditto ditto ditto................CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS E-NUFF!

guy here who shot crazed man w/screwdriver in rear pocket(prior restraining orders/prior mental issues) with 2 dogs attacking him, was portrayed as a "GUN NUT" in trial for carrying colt combat elite 10MM!

now if the good guy had a rem 870 pump with federal OO buck low recoil and shot the bad guy and made him into very small pieces of non quivering flesh blobs(ie. vaporized)..............it would have been "OK" and he would have been portrayed as a guy who was in fear of his life. go figure that juan out. but damn it if its a bad ju-ju bblack evil voodoo non normal 10mm round.............yer a pyscho "GUN NUT"!

this guy had his life totally screwed by county moron attorney who wanted to make name for himself. and by god he did make a name fer himself. he is MR POO NOW and the state law has now changed and the guy released because law states burden of proof lays on prosecution to prove guilt where as before it was defendant must prove innocence.

anythang you do to change gun from mfg specs opens you to LEGAL MIS-INTERPETATION. bullets mfg and type included. night sites/scopes/lazer beams/death rays etc. will portray you as a non politically correct GUN NUT!

carry what local cops/highway patrol/fbi carry.

hell all a jury would have to do is look at my magazine subscriptions and my book shelf let alone look at (2) freeking gun safes to know.................IM A FIREARMS ENTHUSIAST! hahahahahahahahahahahaha

mr. kieffner what did you do last night???? "well i drilled out my M-14 mcmillian f/glass stock to accept USGI combo tool and cleaning rod kit w/oiler, cleaned scope lenzes, applied TETRA gun grease as per U.S.ARMY TM(technical manual) to locking lugs and rails, loctited scope mt screws, lubricated trigger group, applied JB's bore paste to barrel and polished it mirror clean, installed U.S. NAVY nylon mil-spec sling, tightened down castle nut, tightened national match gas piston after cleaning as per TM, applied TETRA gun grease to op rod spring, lubricated all lube points with Mil-COMM lubricant as per TM, checked safety function and placed back into safe until i go to range monyana to KILL ZOMBEEZ!

mr kieffner? would you call yourself a "gun nut?"

"NO" i would call myself the loving/caring/concerned/anal-fixated on taking out "X" all day long/tinkering/can't leave well enough alone/accessorizing/ father of a springfield armory/mcmillian/arrington/SUPER-DUPER NATIONAL MATCH 1200 yd ZOMBEE RIFLE!"

"thank you mr. kieffner...........no further questions yer honor!"

gun-nut my ass! im a freeking DEER/ELK/ANTELOPEZZZ ASSASSIN! LOL!

m21sniper · 08-25-2009, 08:39 AM

Charles they're gonna pull up your pelican posts and you will rightly be portrayed as the epitome of an uber gun nut.

Ammo choice will be the least of your problems. LOL...

Me? I'd rather by judged by 12 than carried by 6. I use the best ammo i can possibly lay my hands on, not the same crap that the local cops bought off the lowest bidder.

charleskieffner · 08-25-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Charles they're gonna pull up your pelican posts and you will rightly be portrayed as the epitome of an uber gun nut.

Ammo choice will be the least of your problems. LOL...

Me? I'd rather by judged by 12 than carried by 6. I use the best ammo i can possibly lay my hands on, not the same crap that the local cops bought off the lowest bidder.

thank you! i take that as a COMPLIMENT! what the hell else are WE supposed to do in this god forsaken wasteland of a dezert when its 110 thousand degrees out with humidity..................watch cooking shows?

summer time synopsis:

get up at 330am do all outdoor work
go to job at 6am
come home late afternoon,HIDE FROM SUN! god help yer APS ELECTRIC BILL if ya turn A/C down below 82 degrees(my bill last month was $330!)
sun goes down at 8pm take dip in 100 degree pool water and watch bats fly around.
go outside when its cool out at 10pm and its only 110 degrees!

51 years of this summer heat crap and its getting WORSE!

believe me come deer season this year................im a gonna nail me juan or die trying!

i sure as hell WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BLAME MY RIFLES or BULLETS!

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Charles is correct in that story. Though I will add that Harold Fish's lawyer was a complete idiot, AZ changed the law because of this case, Fish was released a few weeks ago and won't be retried. Still, his life has been hell for the last few years and carrying a 10mm is, however wrongly, a large reason for it.

Massad Ayoob makes a very nice living as an expert witness. He's sort of the Dr. Henry Lee of defensive shooting cases. And you ain't gonna get his testimony for free or have a jury care about it second or third hand.

Luckily, Phoenix PD recenlty went to .45 ACP and I use several of those for carry, though my main carry gun is a .40, which is the politically correct version of 10mm. You don't have to think it makes sense. It just is what it is.

charleskieffner · 08-25-2009, 09:23 AM

to be politcally correct in a justifiable shooting here in da dezert wastelands, you can argue for the following veapons carried by LEOS here:

glock-.40/.45's all over state

hk-40's tucson

az game and fish ar-15/mini-14's/sigs 40 and .45

azdps sig .45's, rem SP-10 snotguns fer stopping caterpillar D-10's in the event of a pursuit.

MCSO swat/phx. p.d. swat-benelli M-2's/M-4's/rem 700's(.223/.308) hk mp-5's, browning .50 cal on armored car,rem 870's, m-16's

navajo rez: hk pistoles and hk/benelli snotguns. never saw rifles.

ANYTHANG ELSE YER A FREEKING GUN NUT!

federal hydra shoks seem to have the LEO biz mostly wrapped up.

m21sniper · 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

thank you! i take that as a COMPLIMENT!

That's good, because it was intended as one!

Seriously though....i'm using the best stuff i possibly can. I'll worry about legal ramifications AFTER i have saved my life, the lives of my family, or the lives of the innocents i was acting to protect.

As for the cor-bon 115gr +p+, there are a couple quite popular LE only equivelant loads (the Fed 9BPLE+P + is one), so one can easily say, "This is tried and true well tested high performance police type ammunition" and be covered.

Also, my HK P7 PSP is a "Police Service Pistol" in the most common autopistol caliber in existence, and i'm veteran...so i think i should be ok.

But regardless, i'm willing to take the risk. I'd rather be alive, right, and in prison then dead in heaven sitting next to my raped and murdered girlfriend on a cloud.

charleskieffner · 08-25-2009, 09:32 AM

yer TOTALLY SCREWED if ya ever used a winchester lever/ a ruger 10/22/a ruger 22/45/a browning/a kel-tec/a colt/a springfield/a m-1 carbine/a marlin 45/70, a mini -30(7.62x39),smith und vesson .44 mag,colt .45LC and on and on!

LOL!

i think i'll sell all my non politically correct calibers and veapons today so i may come into COMPLIANCE!

NOT EVER!

lord knows i want to be in COMPLIANCE and undergunned when i or my family members are being hacked up into little pieces of flesh and raped by some meth crazed POS, illegal drug cartel members!

i know all the anti-gun people will come to my funeral and help my (2) sons out with furthering their education and helping them get jobs and a home, so they can live in a gun free utopia with unicorns and rainbows like they do! my ass! get real!

m21sniper · 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

lord knows i want to be in compliance and undergunned when i or my family members are being hacked up into little pieces of flesh and raped by some meth crazed pos, illegal drug cartel members!

I know all the anti-gun people will come to my funeral and help my (2) sons out with furthering their education and helping them get jobs and a home, so they can live in a gun free utopia with unicorns and rainbows like they do! My ass! Get real!

+100000000000000000000000000000000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Massad Ayoob makes a very nice living as an expert witness. He's sort of the Dr. Henry Lee of defensive shooting cases. And you ain't gonna get his testimony for free or have a jury care about it second or third hand.

It should be quite easy to submit any and all articles Mr. Ayoob has written on the topic of ammo selection in any of a number of publications as evidence.

He only reccomends 9mm cor-bon in about a thousand of them.

But you guys are right, this can be a very real phenomenon, which is one of the reasons i have reccomended the Mini-14 very highly about a jillion different times over the years. You get black rifle performance in a lovely wood encased package of wholesome goodness.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

I use .45ACP Speer Gold dots, alternating with FMJ. I am seriously considering switching to all FMJ, since penetration data on the JHP shows many do not go to the depth required. I have already switched to all FMJ on my .380ACP, since they aren't going to expand anyway.

Some of the data I've looked at recently seems to be showing faster = more expansion and less penetration, to the point where they are not effective.

HardDrive · 08-25-2009, 09:51 AM

I carry a .38 with some flavor of Winchester JHP+P in it. Can't recall the grain.

charleskieffner · 08-25-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

That's good, because it was intended as one!

Seriously though....i'm using the best stuff i possibly can. I'll worry about legal ramifications AFTER i have saved my life, the lives of my family, or the lives of the innocents i was acting to protect.

As for the cor-bon 115gr +p+, there are a couple quite popular LE only equivelant loads (the Fed 9BPLE+P + is one), so one can easily say, "This is tried and true well tested high performance police type ammunition" and be covered.

Also, my HK P7 PSP is a "Police Service Pistol" in the most common autopistol caliber in existence, and i'm veteran...so i think i should be ok.

But regardless, i'm willing to take the risk. I'd rather be alive, right, and in prison then dead in heaven sitting next to my raped and murdered girlfriend on a cloud.

i pretty much have fallen onto the FEDERAL AMMO WAGON FOR A FEW REASONS:

my FFL amigo and .22 match combat wombat team member is a volume buyer. nice discounts when i buy multi-flavors of calibers.

cdnn in texas sells federal at very good discounts.

i like spent federal brass for handing to my reloading hunting puedner. usually (5) .308 reloads before brass wasted.

dont get me wrong i will take match grade lake city ammo anyday if they ever catch up on military contracts and sell some to us lowly civilian shootists.

all my veapons get (3) flavors shoved down their throats upon "test day" after i have purchased veapon,torn it all apart to see what makes it tick,lube it, and then go RELIGIOUSLY BLAST 200 rds thru it for test function and groups. usually its whatever i can find nowadays or what i have stashed over the years.

surplus 7.62 x 51 from ya banga yabanga afrika,portugal, etc. whatever cheap poo non corrosive i can find. if they eat surplus rounds FMJ im happy as hell. federal ammo of course and sellier belloit/remington/winchester quality rounds to compare to federal groupings.

never EVER had a "click" situation with federal and we are blasting 325 rds of .22 every 4th sunday at the .22 combat wombat lala pa shootza. nver EVER had a "click" situation with any pistole or rifle centerfire federals nor 12 gauge.

PLUS the VALUE ADDED BONER BONUS with all the .308s i own................JUAN (1) round sighted in for all of them until i CROAK! federal 168gr BTHP PREMIUM MATCH FOREVER! makes it a HELL OF ALOT EASIER for my limited brain cells to figure each and every veapons scopes and iron sights, come-ups blah blah!

now for the lever actions we really like hornadays "leverevolution" rounds especially for the 45/70. very accurate and a HELL OF ALOT OF KNOCKDOWNPOWER(ask my sons 3x4 elk last year how much it got his attention!)

.338 mcmillian gets arizona ammo custom moly bullets with new federal cases. dont ask how much 20 of those cost because its uber obscene cost per round. but i get a .559 group all day out of them. wayyyyy overkill on stoo-pid deer. ask me how i know???) this is ONLY a elk rifle. period. too spendy to go have fun with.

m21sniper · 10:06 AM

In .22LR i've only ever had rifles. If i was to use one for self defense i'd use the Remington "hyper velocity" Yellowjacket JHP. It has a much nicer, more well defined hollowpoint than the CCI "stinger" round. That being said i would not ever deliberately rely on any rimfire for self defense. Just way too many misfires. It's really a shame, becuase if not for that a .22LR semi-auto rifle would be an INSANELY good self defense weapon. Shrug.

In .32ACP i just use FMJ, but that's really just because i have no intention of ever using it for defense, and because my pistol in that caliber is a 100 year old model 1905 Savage. I have other guns for defense, but i will say this- .32ACP ammo penetrates WAY deeper in phone books(2 of them!) than one would ever expect.

In my .380ACP i used Magsafes or Glaser safety slugs. They had as much muzzle energy as full power .357 magnum loads, and they WILL "expand".

In .38spl i'd use either the 110gr +P+ "treasury" load or the 158gr +P "FBI" load

In 9mm it's cor bon (comes in 90, 115 and 147 gr weights)

In .357 magnum the 125gr Rem/Fed SJHP is probably the most legendary "manstopping" round of all time. My mom and sister both have Remington 125's in the Ruger .357 mags i bought them years ago.

In .45ACP i used to use Rem 185gr +P JHP. It had a profile specifically made to work in ALL .45 auto pistols, and it has nearly DOUBLE the muzzle energy of standard 230gr GI "hardball" ammo.

In .44 magnum i'd use federal 180gr JHP for APERS duty, but it's not a caliber any "experts" reccomend for self defense, and i don't either. Too much recoil and over penetration.

Those are the only calibers i've ever owned in handguns, so those are the only ones i'm going to offer my $.02 on

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

In .44 magnum i'd use federal 180gr JHP for APERS duty, but it's not a caliber any "experts" reccomend for self defense, and i don't either. Too much recoil and over penetration.

I love lighting off 180gr. in my Insp. Callahan Special. Brings the range to a standstill, when they hear that boom. World of difference between those and 240gr.