Further I do try and talk rationally with people, but if they are fixated on their own perceptions and are iimovable. I take their imagery/perception and go to the extremes with it. I become the very image of what they don't like, and sooner or later they ahhhh can't sustain that perception without blowing a gasket as it were: then they just tend to stfu. If you do not think this is true just ask PWD or any member of the R Gruppe.

Now I don't really use my bag of parlor tricks anymore, I just beat you over the head with my own logic and perceptions until you either submit or self disintegrate U see I just don't give a fk anymore how limited you are.. I just say what I know to be true...and let the chips fall where they may.

A Life Examined
 

It usually is the realm of old men to examine their life's events to make some sense of it all. To ponder their successes and their failures, all to see how they arrived at the place they are at.

Now what happens if one does it at 20 years old. Not only does one examine the past but events as they unfold along the path of life. Making sense and reason from each event. It soon becomes a self perpetuating endeavor that propels one into the future. Till one reaches a point of awareness of ones self and environment where nothing can hide. It is all right there as plain as day.

The ultimate reality test is that one day our lights are going to go out. The truth of the matter is that for the most part, that drawing another breath is going to become so unbearable that letting go is going to be a relief for us. So what in the scheme of things becomes important in this life? But the capacity of one to love. To show kindness to another person or creature in this life. That is the only thing that makes any sense or has any enduring quality

This has been my operational code since I was 20 years old.

Lube,

Just wanted to get this out first:
You are a great father and have an even greater son (who has by far passed most of us even with all of our experiences) because you have been that great father!

As for Angela's comment - I read it that if you were to make the kids cry she'd beat the sheets out of you ... maybe she was referring that what your wife did is unforgivable ... OR did I miss something while skimming this thread ???

slight tangent:
I got divorced and gave up on my EX when she told our 3 year old daughter (at the time) to kick and spit on me ... I gave up at that moment and later that night when I was playing a stupid game on my cell and her demanding me to stop it because she couldn't sleep (no sound and the back light was not that bright) ... of course, she was reading a magazine with the lights on ... I said "no" she ended up whacking me and saying our daughter did it, when she whacked me her arm probably bumped (hit???) our daughter and she started crying. I lost it, got up, slammed the door (shouldn't have done that) and went outside to have a smoke. She started that she's going to her sisters and I came up with the bright one, "if you spend the night, don't come back - ever!" Her response, a reasonable slap across the face ... which she refused to admit to in front of the sister and brother-in-law.

getting back slightly to the topic:
I, too, hold the same family values and believe (although broke that vow) that marriage is something to hold on to dear life forever. HOWEVER! I rationalized to myself that the only person who is going to loose is my daughter (the most precious thing in my life).

I can take all the blame
I can live with a woman that hates me just for the sake of that contract signed in front of God (errr, I don't want to make this into a religious thing ... so .... let's just keep the God comment as just a literary phrase ...)
I can become a hated, non-respected wussy and live with that

However, even with the above 3 statements my child is more important and a stable environment for her is more important than being able to be with her. I knew if I got divorced I would have to wait for 10 years plus and hope she finds me on the net.

I have a feeling that Angela is right that your wife doesn't respect you (as to the cause ... not sure ... is it you or her condition?) and that you need to set boundaries IF they can still be established. Your wife is sooooo lost in her own sorrows that she can't see what she is doing to her own children.

I'm sorry dude, but what she has done to you is not really a consideration at the moment. I feel sorry for you but ... I'm more concerned about your kids. Like I said above, you are doing a F'in great job with them but ... the mother is really hurting them.

I had hoped that her mom would be able to understand what is going on, but she is just seeing her poor baby hurting and you the "man" not being a "man".

I really wish I knew the answer to this ...

I wonder if she were on some kind of stabilizers if things would cool and calm down enough for the kids to get back on track with dealing a "physical" problem without the "mental" problems.

I am sure that most of us are hoping that your wife will finally get over with this dark phase in her life.

Lube,
keep posting your rants here,
we are all willing to hear what you have to say,
and
in PPOT fashion post we will post our meaningful and meaningless advise ( :D )

Just have to add this on.
Give your kids a huge hug from all of us!

edit --- ugh, double post...

oh hell ya I have. The thing that seems to be working is to not fight regardless.

We had a good night - Son had a walk through his plays for the game tomarrow. When we got back we had a bunch of friends at the house. It was a good night and she laughed a lot. It got late and our Son asked when people were going to go home.

"Buddy, when have we seen mommy laugh so much? This is good. I tell you what, I'll go hang with you in the bedroom and watch TV so you get some rest. Mommy is needing this - we can sleep in."

They are all asleep now. I cleaned up. I hope Saturday rolls well.

That's got to feel like a tall glass of ice water in a Mojave heatwave, Lubey...

And no, you don't deserve to have a car dropped on you, literally or figuratively. Twelve pages so far of people who have written in, wished you well, hoped for the best and tried to give you advice or at least encouragement. We wouldn't have bothered if you weren't such a nice guy. Yeah, that's right, Lubey's a nice guy.

The communication style you two have in an argument clashes viciously. The less you respond, the weaker and less caring you appear to her, and the more she will run over the top of you. Right now, you two throw gasoline on each other's fire. Then she is home and broods about it all day... You have become a bottomless receptacle for her displaced anger. I'd like to say that her escalating anger will stop with just ugly words, but that's not the typical pattern for this, ask any abuse counselor. It starts with disrespect, moves to far stronger negative emotions. Maybe this nasty spiral will just end in an expensive and ugly divorce. Maybe it becomes more destructive....

I've mentioned boundaries before. They are a must and that includes boundaries in an argument. There is ground that is "fair fight" and other areas that are not. Things wifes/husbands, parents/children, friends, etc., NEVER say to each other. For most of us, this is an unspoken agreement, we already desire not to genuinely hurt the other person in an argument. As this invisible line does not exist with you two, that is probably a good place to start the boundary thing. Give and take. You let go of something that really bothers her, she lets go of something that really bothers you.

Your home life needs some joy. All of you ache for it. Last night was good, go out and have some fun together today (or stay home and have it) whatever it involves. You have nothing but the best wishes from your Pelican friends.

angela

Spent most of today cleaning from Friday night - Saturday was filled with ball games and what not. Most of the day went well save for when the boy and I washed the kitchen floor with Mr Clean bleach and water. Mommy didn't think that wise - something about pitting the tile? What ever.

While I was out last night with our Son, our neighbors and close friends came by - a couple that has gone through a divorce each (she is also a teacher at our kids school). They asked my Wife if we were getting a divorce. I guess our Son had mentioned it to his teacher who then sked our friend/neighbor. Wife told them that things are bad but nothing has been put in motion yet.

Listen to what Angela is saying. Boundaries are important.
One good night out of 100 isn't good enough.
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/B001AN8BAC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253554226&sr=1-2
A lot of Jesus in here, but it is a great tool.

You also might look at "I hate you, don't leave me."

so this morning my Son and I are talking about scout camping this weekend and the conflict with his football game and he thinks he can't do both so he just wants to camp. Mommy comes in and asks what we are talking about.

"nothing really just camping and football is all."

"Like what?"

"Nothing, its nothing - just about the conflict in timing is all."

"Well tell me, thats the problem! Thats where he gets it. We have to communicate"

so I cut a page out of the councelors book and try to apply a techneque he shared with me....

"I can understand how that must make you feel, frustrated and all that. I will look to share more with you from here on out. Sorry."

"Looks like those psche lessons are paying off..." She says snidely

I felt like saying "I wish those Jenny Craig lessons were paying off..." But I didn't

You're just being overly negative!!!
~Art Plumber

Sadly, as i've stated, i agree with Angela.

On a related note, my morbid fascination with this crazed knife wielding woman seems to grow with every post of hers that i read.... ;)

Fail bro, next time just tell her what you're talking about, without arguing about it.

I mean seriously, if you really want to try to save this, you need to stop making it worse for yourself.

yah, why didn't you just tell her the situation?

Because I'm a shythead. Yes in retrospec I dropped the ball. I just get tired from time-to-time having to always be on game. I wish this wasnlt so freaking hard all the time.

Understood my friend.

Yeah Mike, gotta agree. Fail on that one.

Better angle would have been, "oh we're glad you're here. there is a conflict this weekend, here's the situation....."

My wife does stuff like that to me.

Her:
"Can you pick me up from the train?"

Me:
Sure, what time does it get in?

"Well it leaves at X.XXpm."

K, when does it get in.:mad:

"It's an express"

Great, what time does it get in?:mad::mad:

"Well it should take xx minutes"

Just tell me what time it f'n gets in!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

"Why are you yelling at me?"

In my experience, the amount of time I've had to spend "on game" was surprisingly short, once I committed to it. A month, maybe to see very positive results. After years of a similar environment. That, coupled with stern warnings of the consequences of HER actions, ( I, in no uncertain terms, told her we will get a divorce, no ifs ands or buts, kids, pets, nothing. NO ONE has to live a miserable life because of another person. No one.) brought much stability to the relationship and has turned life in our house around. Kids are happier, No yelling, etc..
My hair hasn't grown back, but I can live with that.

My girlfriend does the same ***** and it pisses me off to no end.

When my wife does the same thing above, my solution is to ask her another question - the question that she IS answering. That's when she realizes that she's not answering my question:


Her:
"Can you pick me up from the train?"

Me:
Sure, what time does it get in?

Her:
"Well it leaves at X.XXpm."

Me:
OK, what time does it leave?

...a quizzical look, a few seconds pause, then a smile from her ...

Her:
"oh - it should be in about y.yypm"