good stuff Peter,
lost the use of my L arm for about 6 months..
I'm a lefty..
I could see my food..could not cut it,
drive..well that was plain scary..
zip your pants../ getting dressed was an adventure..
and I could see...
however..
I did not say things I cannot take back, or will be forgotten..
her rage and denial could last a long time..
perhaps while sitting in out in the cold..
she would come to realize a warm family is waiting..
at this rate..
she's scorching everything..
only to find herself alone in Hell freezing..

Rika

No disagreement. The prob is, I suspect she learned "scorched earth" fighting from her role models. I was hoping the counselor would start helping her get around this, but it sounds like only one session has happened. Mike can see how easy it is to fall into bad fighting, probably much easier for her to degenerate if she never learned any modicum of fair fighting.

I called her today and asked that she not talk divorce or anything like that in front of the kids. The disucssion quickly lead to her telling me to admit that I have checked out and that I want out. I didn't. She got paranoid thinking that the conversation was being recorded which actually made me laugh. In fact I got the giggles which really set her off. she pulled out all the tricks trying every which way to piss me off - saying various things that would piss off the Pope but I didn't flinch. She finally went back to her major premise that I wasn't there for her and that I don't do anything for her. She challenged me to name one thing I have done for her. I asked her to name one thing I haven't. I told her that I have always done everything she has ever asked and have never refused regardless. I knew where she was going with it all - I wasn't there for her emotionally.

She is a pretty cold person and has never been affectionate. She said I should have forced a hug. Ya right! That would have gone over like a fart in a dive helmet! I put up with her ice for over 10 years and her caustic tongue for even longer.

Mike, I'm sorry to hear that things have taken a turn for the worse. But if nothing else you have to put your kids first, and right now you are facilitating psychological child abuse. Each day, each fight, you're doing unseen harm to your children. Regardless of the outcome between you and your wife, you have to get your kids away from the situation. I understand that you have challenges with work, family, etc but you have to put your kids first. It is not acceptable that THEY be forced to continue living like this.

Just noticed this from artplumber's signature:

Peter
'79 930, 2.7T A6, XC90 Kid carrier, Accord sacrificial lamb
997RS now home. Matt wanna buy a car?

nil carborundum illegitimi

What are you selling?:D

Mike,
I have been sending good thoughts and prayers with out posting a reply every day.

Based on what you have posted I really believe that the kids need to be out of the situation, even for a short period of time.

Whether or not you get divorced is not relevant at this point. Your wife is, IMO, causing ireparable damage to your kids.

With school it will be difficult but they should be out of the house and away from the fighting. I can see the potential problems brewing already.

Will your wife feel abandoned? Probably but this has crossed the line in what anyone should have to live with.

I'm very sorry that this is such a mess in your life but I know that sometimes it IS best to be apart, for the sake of the kids.

This is such a tragedy - every time I click on this thread I know it's just going to be excruciating to read - which it is.

As I've said before, I don't believe in divorce, but honestly if I were Mike and things really were going down exactly as he's describing, I'd have left with the kids already - living in another place, separated. I'd throw away my cell phone and cut off contact completely. Give it a year and then maybe check back.

If she's that self-destructive (sure sounds like it), you don't want to be anywhere near her. You certainly don't want innocent children anywhere near someone like that. People like that have given up and their only motivation is to see how many people they can drag down with them.

Seriously. I'd be out of that situation completely and f*ck what anyone else thinks about it.

I think Jeff has come up with a good idea. Mike, can you afford to move you and the kids out of the house while you try to get your wife to come to terms with her situation? Maybe the three of you being gone will remind your wife of how much she stands to lose.

Only you are in your daily life, so again I won't try to play-call for you.

BUT- if I was you, any decision I made would be of concern to the children first. Meaning, if the kids benefit from a choice, but it happens to be of detrement to the wife, so be it.

You say she's been icy for 10 years- how have you done this for 10 years?

Let me know when you're done making this thread about us instead of Lube master, ok?

So dude, after reading this post, i am forced to ask.....what is it that she offers that you have to have?

She offers nothing to me - I have always maintained that I do not need her but rather want her. That want has been gone for some time now. I would like it is she left on her own accord. I would gladly set her up in an apartment close by and even furnish for her.

It's a tough situation you're in bro. If i was local to you i'd definitely take you out for a good drunking to help ease your pain.

You REALLY should contact a divorce attorney before making any huge changes to the household living arrangement. It may not matter in your states but I would check into it. You certainly don't want to cause any more pain, financially or emotionally, than is needed.


Yes, I do feel bad for your wife considering her eyes and what's going on but it seems like life has been crappy even before that turn of events.

again, best wishes to you and your family, Mike.

It is a very strange thing - I talked to my Boss about it today. He was dumbfounded. The situation lacks all logic. You would think that she would look to treat her family better rather than worse - I mean she really needs us now and she has done her very best at pushing is all away.

I don't care if she is blind or not, she is an absolute misarable person to be around and has been for a long time. At some point something has to break.

you just reminded me of something - about two years ago I really thought I might have a drinking problem so I decided to check out AA. I even went to a few meetings. I didn't drink for a few weeks.

We had some freinds over and she was relentless on having me have a beer with them. I was doing fine not having anything but she cornered me in the kitchen and pleaded with me to drink with them and that she wanted to be be able to have me toast our childrens wedding. She even made inuendos to the fact that having a few beers might "loosen things up". So I had a few beers and no I didnlt get any that night!

Now not for nothing but if she wanted to go dry I would never ever pressure her to drink. What the f^(< is this Jr High or what?

Seriously, what kind of person would do that?

Your wife.

Dude that is effed up. Even in HS when I told my buddies I didn't want to drink they respected that. These are the same ppl that I refer to as the biggest douchebags I know.

My parents started arguing after we went to bed about the time I turned 13. In front of or behind closed doors, if your kids are in the house when you're arguing it's a good bet they can hear what you're arguing about.

I'll never forget those arguments. I have probably forgiven my parents for having them but as anyone would a day doesn't go by that I don't wish that they had been loving of each other as much as they loved us kids.

Failing that, I wish they would have divorced sooner. I got out a few years earlier but my younger brother and sister were significantly damaged emotionally by it all. My brother is in his early 30s and is well on the path of a normal life. My sister is in her late 20s and is one of the most bitter people I know.

I hate the thought of abandoning your relationship with your wife - as strained as it is but your children deserve a better life and for their sake I believe your focus should lean in that direction. I certainly can't tell you what to do or even try to give 'advice' because from the outside it is much easier to look in but on the inside you have to live it. Your wife needs help and I suppose the question is - can you give it to her? Maybe the topic of conversation needs to change from the relationship between you two to the relationship she has with her children. If she's as cold to them as you say...well...your kids deserve better.

She brought up something else - she says I'm too controlling! Controlling? Is she even thinking this stuff up or was this on Dr Phil?

I have never ever restricted her from anything or asked her to do anything for that matter. I have never gott'n into her stuff for not doing something or doing it not according to my standards. I have no clue what she is refering too so I asked her to provide an example.

"When the kids were born, you had me keep track of what they ate, when they ate, when they pee'd or pooped and when they slept and for how long then you would put it into a spread sheet. Thats controlling!"

"So when did record keeping become controlling? I'm interested in our kids and ya sometimes the engineer in me comes out but as for controlling? It would have been one thing if I told you you had to feed them at a certain time or with a certain diet and if you didn't there would be hell to pay - that was never the case. I never ever restricted you from doing anything. I never asked you to do anything either. To say I am controlling is not only laughable but smacks of insanity. I might be distant or emotionally detached but I am not controlling."

Again, where the hell does she get this stuff???