If you were going to get a VW bug, which year would you get?
 

I'm contemplating getting a bug so that I can do a restoratation. The goal would be just to better my skills before I get another Porsche.

Are there any years that you need to avoid? Are there any years that are better than others?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Don't know that info but from hanging out here I'd get a VW truck, have seen some real nice ones

Talk to Thom (widebody)

'74 Super Beetle. Superior front and rear suspension, still had carb for simpler resto. you can even put the rear suspension and brakes off a 944 on a SB without too much trouble.

Watch for strut tower and frame head rust, in addition to battery and usual areas for standard bug

I'd buy a nice '67, first year for 12 volts. But talk to other enthusiasts, and you'll get other opinions, all valid. Oval Window, Super Beetle, so this is just my two cents.

Depends on what you're looking for. Like Porsches many parts can be utilized across a number of years. Swing axle cars go up to '68. '68 and newer are IRS, however you can convert swing axles to IRS. 5 lug hubs are preferred if you're looking to put in a little "git up 'n go" in the back, but again, 4 luggers can be converted to 5 (not a mandatory upgrade).

To me the ultimate bug, would be a split window rag top. Next up would be an oval window rag top. Stay away from the Super Beetle ('73 and newer), as they are not what I would consider a classic bug. They have mcpherson struts and a curved windscreen.

However, if I were to get a classic VW today, I'd skip the bug and go for a double cab. Check out The Samba for more than you'll ever want to know about VWs. Here's their dictionary page to get you started: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/dic/index.php

+1, Thom is a guru on VWs.

I've restored a '73 (full body-off) and learned a heck of a lot as it was my first ever restoration. As I'm sure you know, bugs make wonderful restoration projects as they are simple and parts availability is great.

In my opinion, you should familiarize yourself with the various body style changes and engine/mechanical changes and make your decisions from there. As with the 911, the engines became progressively bigger and more powerful as time went by, and each has its own quirks etc. Similarly, the body changed year over year with some of the most visually obvious changes being the evolution of the back window and engine lid, the running lights and brake lights, and the bumper style. If you're considering later years there was also the super beetle, which had much improved front suspension and a more modern (but in my opinion less classic) dash.

Good luck!

I second the '67.


KT

Yes, the '74 super beetle. Keep as a daily driver.

My favorite is a '61 - '63. Modern lights and blinkers and not as expensive as earlier bugs.

In '64 the glass got bigger and it body lost it's roundness..

After '66 and you lose the five lug wheels. After '67 and you lose the flat headlights...

Earlier ones are swing Axel and less horsepower.

i like the oval window rag top sunroofs. with a 1600, later trans and 12V conversion. the 36hp is cool, but you need something that keeps up with traffic. trouble with bugs is that i feel so vulnerable driving around in a sea of SUVs and other larger vehicles that were not around way back when i was into them. i got a 67 bug several years ago and decided i was a bus guy pretty quick. a 71 bus has disc brakes and still has the more dependable 1600 bug engine. love the splitties, but again, no good for travelling much of a distance.

Ground up restoration? How about a '70-something era beetle (non-super beetle) pan - with the better brakes and bigger engine and stuff.

And then use a earlier oval window body shell?

That would be cool.:cool:

I thought '68 was the first year of the 4x130 bolt pattern.


KT

Nope, '67 - 4 bolt wheels, flat hubcaps, 12 volt electrics, sealed beam headlights, first year of the wider license plate light on the engine lid, but it still has the nice bumpers and the steel dash with no crash pad.

'66 is the 1300. You have the 5 lug wheels, but hidden under an ugly flat cap. The earlier "moon" cap is nicer..

I love them all. See "mexibeetles" on TV all the time, I want a new one too..

'46

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/453163.jpg

1966 with a 1600DP and IRS fitted.

Other than that, a 1973 Super Beetle.

That's really a tough question. 66 for the old school look, 67 for 12 V and it really is a model unto it's own. 68 had all the right stuff. Other than a car for the classic look and value, if I were building a bug (and I have built many) I would build a 68 or 69. Start with a 1600 DP and build it out to 1835cc. Pushing it to 2180cc is a bit much for that case. It will go like hell but not for long. Think 2.7 P motor. If you build an early car, remember a 1600 Super P motor will drop right in with a little grinding inside the bell housing. Ask me how I know.

Caution on '67.

The '67 has a LOT of one year only parts that can be difficult to find.

The wheels, brakes and even hubcaps are from porsche - 1 year. They are 4 lug.

Decklids are 1 year only, etc.


66 was the last year for 5 lug wheels.


In '68 only the automatic had IRS. '69 all cars had IRS.

'68 was the first year for the 'impact' bumpers.

Not a super beetle fan here.

I've restored 2 '69 verts and a '69 Ghia vert.

I completely agree with you. A lot of 67 parts only fit a 67. Even the fenders are different on 67's. My choice would be a 69. "impact bumpers" in the real sense did not come out until the 70's cars and super beetle.

Stay FAR away from super beetles, for a LOT of reasons.

Ive had a 67 , 69, 70, 72, 73. and a 64 bus. I agree with astaying away from the super beetles especially with the autoshift.

Heres my '67 Not exactly a restoration.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1252521684.gif


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1252521858.gif

If you're going to do a restoration, then I'd say do an oval or an early bigwindow. Given a car that is 100% complete, the restoration costs will be roughly the same as the later cars people are touting, but you'll actually stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting your money back out of it.

I also recommend going completely stock. The VW world is rife with people's customizations and interpretations, but there properly-done stock restos are few and far between.

Never go to a Porsche site to ask about VW's :rolleyes: hehe

'66 was not the last year for 5-lug, '67 was. '68 was the first year for 4-lug. (speaking of USA market cars here)
Unlike what was posted earlier, none of these used Porsche brakes.

67 is a good year if you like the older styling with 12V electrics, but honestly most older cars have been updated to 12V by now and its a small job to update if it hasnt already been done. Hardly a deal breaker. '67 does have a lot of one year parts, but none of these are too hard to find since '67 was also one of the best selling years in VW history. (I have three '67 decklids in my attic that I would happily sell for $50 each.)

One post says that an 1835 is a good combo, yet a 2180 is pushing it too far when in fact both of these engines are built using 92mm cylinders which are traditionally thought to be too thin walled to maintain a good ring seal. The difference between an 1835 and a 2180 is the stroke of the crank which all other things being equal will have no impact on reliability.

Point being - if you want reliable VW info, go to a VW forum and lurk long enough to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who dont. The Samba seems to attract a lot of kids who talk above thier experience...but that may be a false impression. I have always liked www.Cal-Look.com although that is primarily a performance oriented site.

You can obsess over the minutia of what year car had what feature, but ...is a VW! Most of them have been either bastardized or updated by now anyway! :D I would guess that 75% of all running VWs have dual port enigines in them now despite the year becuase why would you ever rebuild one with single port heads?!?!? :)

Aside from that, my suggestion is to look for the most solid, rust-free, un-hit beetle that you can find....whatever the year. Sounds like this is a short term project, so its not like you are living with it the rest of your life. 67 and earlier cars will always bring more money when you sell...but frankly you are not going to get rich off of any of them. Engines, trannies, etc etc are somewhat inconsequential beacause they are cheap to rebuild or buy.

Lurk in the classifieds of www.thesamba.com until you find a good candidate. Any year up to 1967 should do. Get one with a good body and minimal rust, all the parts, and the original engine. Restore to all original.

I once restored a 1959 convertible, and had a great time. When I sold it, I broke even. The fact that the '59 was 6 volt was not a problem, as I restored it to original. It's when you start installing fancy stereos and other nonsense that the 12V system becomes necessary. If you don't plan on driving it much in the rain or at night, 6V is fine.

I'd like to restore an old bus someday.

What are you going to do with it when you are done?

Thanks for the replies. I really want to further my automotive and mechanic skills while fixing up a cool car. Another 911 works for this as well, but with the kids and everything else right now, I think a bug is better suited to this end. When I'm done, I met sell the car, but if I did a good job, I'd probably keep it. I tend to stick to one or two things that work and keep them. I still have the same car I had in college.

Who is the Pelican Parts of the VW world for parts? I'm aware of the Samba, but it is pretty huge for the noob.

Some of you guys are saying yes to Super Beetles and some are saying absolutely not. What is the split about?

I love the car you posted Thom. I like the old flat panel metal dash and super simple car. I don't need AC for this one. I will likely just return it to stock condition because I don't know any better.

What are some good books for pointing out all the individual features of each model year?

A lot of people are under the misapprehension that the strut suspension has problems. It only does if it is in bad condition

Check it(not just SB content)
http://www.superbeetles.com/
NB tech talk with Rick, and high perf 101

I had a '65 Baja with a 2110 back in '87...

Loved it.


KT

The samba is the web site to peruse. It 's not that huge, if you just concentrate on the bug pages. Sign into the samba and ask your questions there. You'll get more educated responses.

The reason I prefer pre-super beetle cars is just because of the vintage and collectibility factor. The older ones are cooler. I also prefer early 911s, even though they are less comfortable to drive.

As for a book, this question on the samba will get you answers.

I really want to further my automotive and mechanic skills while fixing up a cool car.

It is for this reason I think you should consider a stock resto on an oval or early bigwindow (58-61). If you just want a driver, then get a super and knock yourself out, but paint, body etc on a super are the same as an oval, but if you take the time to restore a super, when you're done, you'll still have a $1500 car.

If i was an obscenely rich man like Bill Gates i would make it my personal mission to buy, and then destroy, every VW Bug ever made.

Why do you feel compelled to be a troll? Did a Beetle kick your 928's ass?

My brother drives a 52 Bug every day as he goes to and from work. He has had it for 30 years.

I know of a few that would easily do it, I see you do too..

As others have said, research, reseach & more reseach, pick Thom's brain, as he is clearly the true brain trust here who has done what you want, others of us have, but not the number or level of what Thom has done..

You like big windows or little, me, I would love to have a 55 with a sliding sunroof (last year for the big roof, 63 I think) 57s have a slightly larger rear window and again, as others have pointed out, Supers can be turned into some bad ass track cars since the 924 front susp was based off the Super, 68 & up (Autostick/IRS rear susp) is a bolt on for 944 rear control arms & brakes..

The key is to know what you want & use is for, Baja Bugs are a blast & not to much $$$ to build, if you want to go offroad, do you want stock, retro, sleeper, or wild?? You have Cal Look & German Look. Pick up a Hot Vws Magazine and check it out, reseach for a bit, try & go to some VW shows, see if there are any local clubs to check out rides.. BITD, before all the really good stuff was out, the rule was a 69 for a driver, but only you know what you want..

I would be torn between a Super Sleeper & a 55 Rag on a IRS pan.. Another question, do you want a Bug, Bus, Gia Thing, or Notch??? Things are super cool too.. Remember, ask questions, then ask more....

A '65 beetle is why I ended up with a Porsche. I had a '65 that I absolutely loved. I had it painted, had a new interior installed, a 1776 motor (I understood that was the largest without machining the case), and a sun roof. I dearly loved cranking the sunroof open & driving that car to work & eveywhere else. One Sunday morning, it wasn't in my driveway - stolen! That's when I bought my '67 912 (which I loved too). I really might end up with another one someday.

I see what you are getting at. A full blown stock resto is wasted on a super beetle because it is still worth very little while the old cars will bring coin. So if I was going to extend the effort, then I should do it on an older car.

I'll constrain my search to 58-61's unless I figure out that I like something better.

I must have done a million miles with this view.

Great, simple, trouble-free motoring. And these little buggers have a lot of charm and personality—even though a lot of glaciers are faster.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1252952493.jpg

The 72 is nice, its the first year SB and last year flat windshield, still carbbed but with the nice struts.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...mmer91/bug.jpg

Old Bugs....gotta love 'em. If it's a weekend cruiser you're after, I'd pick a '58 thru '63 model with the big cloth sunroof, or if you're bucks-up, maybe a convertible. These have the classic look but don't command the higher prices of the older models. In '64, the sunroof changed to a sliding metal panel and the smaller "pope's nose" license plate light grew larger. In '65, the side & rear windows got bigger. In '67, the fenders, headlights & deck lid changed. While '67 was the first year for 12V electrics, most earlier cars can easily be converted to 12V. Quite a few one-year-only parts on a '67, too. From a styling point of view, I'd pass on anything '68 & newer. In addition to the big ugly bumpers, this is the year that safety & emissions requirements started influencing design (not just for VWs but for all cars). These newer cars do drive better but you can't beat the '50s & early '60s cars for their classic look.

As said by others, be patient and look for a car with minimal rust or body damage. Anything else is easily fixed.

These cars are very easy to restore and you can practically take the entire thing apart with a Swiss Army knife. Parts are easy to come by and you can buy nearly every little widget and what-not from a catalog or website. For hard parts, try aircooled.net or cip1.com. For rubber & trim look to westcoastmetric.com. For upholstery, check out sewfine.com.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1252963161.jpg

Take your time & have fun!

Yep he has nailed it. I had a 69 and a 74 fat chick. got the 69 in 83 almost stock and a few years ago had the 74. I looked at so many prior to purchasing the 74 and everyone had been "Customized" by many previous owners. Finding and looking at restorations of bugs that were done back to complete stock was such a joy to find, and very rare. though if you want a little more Jack Raby builds some very nice motors. check him out.

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/Home_Page.htm

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1252978756.jpg

If you wanna practice your metal skills, how about something like this