Hunting rifle info?

GeorgeK · 09-13-2009, 10:42 AM

I have been asked to tap the forum's knowledge about guns.

My bro-in-law inherited this rifle, likely a poacher's hunting rifle (It was painted all black before a cleanup, and his grandfather was a poacher). We have no clue as to who made it, in which country, and what it could be worth (He does not intend on using it). It must be close to 100 years old.

So, any guess/knowledge is welcome.

porsche4life · porsche4life's Garage

Tabs will know.

m21sniper · 09-13-2009, 10:50 AM

It has a rifled barrel? Looks like a Shotgun to me, not a rifle. An old one.

GeorgeK · 09-13-2009, 11:00 AM

Shotgun it is. Demonstrates my ignorance in all things firearms...

Barrel is not rifled.

It uses some weird cartridges that have a pin sprouting off the side of the base as a firing pin.

porsche4life · porsche4life's Garage

Pictures of the cartridge?

m21sniper · 09-13-2009, 11:07 AM

Jesus that thing must really be old. Can't wait for Tabsy or someone else to tell us what it is.

Fascinating.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

I have a pistol which used a similar cartridge. I believe it is a pin fire, which would probably date it to after 1830.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

tabs · 09-13-2009, 12:27 PM

Pin Fire it is....circa 1860 to 1880 apx . It is an underlever Shotgun. The barrels are awefully thick for a shotgun? But a Fowling piece it is. With out any marks it is hard to determine the place of origin. However it being a Backaction Lock my initail guess is that it is of Ameican mfg. Where is the gun located US or abroad?

GeorgeK · 09-13-2009, 12:35 PM

Gun is in Switzerland.
He wants to sell it, but looks for information beforehand.

tabs · 09-13-2009, 12:40 PM

The Maker of the arm and condition, condition conditon all are factors in value. This one the black paint hurts it alot. the condition looks fair, the maker is????

In the US $200 to $400.

targa911S · 05:18 PM

Take pictures of the barrel flats (bottom of the breech end) and the markings there, and post them. They are small so it will be difficult to photo. It will be easier to identify it by the proof markings. The marks on the water table seem to say "10" so it "may" be a 10 ga. which would account for the breech thickness. It looks Belgian to me and I have seen many of them. It is called a LEFAUCHEUX ACTION. Although it is often referred to as a scissor action or underlever. Most were French and Belgian although Husqvarna used the action too. Most likely a 16 ga., but as I said above the "10" mark has me thinking. Not real rare and not real valuable. If it were a 10 ga. that would help the value. WELL over 100 years old. Most do not have a makers names on them unless they were trying to imitate a fine English gun like a William C Scott or others. The knock offs were often marked "W.C. Scott. ", an obvious play on words. Belgium was in it's day to firearms what Japan was to the knock off market in the 50's and 60's. There were no doubt some fine guns made, but most were klunkers.

Jeff Higgins · 09-13-2009, 05:56 PM

Like targa911s says, cheap European underlever pinfires came from many, many sources. They varied widely in quality, from good, serviceable arms to out and out dangerous to be anywhere near. Not very valuable today, at any rate. Best to hang onto it and continue with the "grandpa was a poacher" tale when folks ask about it. In other words, its family history makes it more valuable to you than to anyone else.

If, perchance, you can locate some pinfire shells that fit it, and get the urge to shoot it - please don't. It likely has damascus barrels. Time is not kind to the cheaper ones, rendering them pretty dangerous to shoot. They rust between the layers, and actually start to delaminate (for lack of a better term). They can fail catastrophically and injure or kill the shooter. Hang it over the fireplace; it's a cool conversation piece.

targa911S · 09-14-2009, 05:50 AM

Like Jeff says...

RPKESQ · 09-14-2009, 07:55 AM

Likely a "guild" gun. Make up, after hours, by several craftsmen to sell as extra income. This practice was rife in mainland Europe and still continues in Austria and Germany. Only Proof marks will indicate country of origin. Names are pretty much meaningless, since they are so many attempts at false advertising on these guns.

Yes, it is a pinfire. Yes, they still make cartridges and no you should not shoot it.

The thick barrels, the obvious low grade finishing and construction are indicative that this was a gun made for very little cost. Add in the factor that the left hand hammer has been poorly repaired and you have an "wall hanger" value firearm. I would not put a value of more than 200 Euro for such a gun.

Retain it as a family keepsake.

targa911S · 09-14-2009, 09:21 AM

I saw that hammer too but it just looked like rust to me. You likely have a better eye. I think now that it looks to be only brazed.

targa911S · 09-14-2009, 09:31 AM

I saw that hammer too but it just looked like rust to me. You likely have a better eye. I think now that it looks to be only brazed.

GeorgeK · 09-14-2009, 11:08 AM

Thank you!
The hammers will be removed and hidden far away, and the gun will most likely decorate a fireplace.
BTW the left hammer has just been correctly repaired after a failed attempt.

RPKESQ · 09-14-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeK

Thank you!
The hammers will be removed and hidden far away, and the gun will most likely decorate a fireplace.
BTW the left hammer has just been correctly repaired after a failed attempt.

You do not have to remove the hammers for any safety reason, as there isn't a firing pin(s) on the weapon in this system. So thre is no chance that modern ammunition could be set off by accident.

Leave them on and enjoy the complete weapon as a historical wallhanger.

BTW, I would not consider that hammer repair pictured as performed correctly.