Any Saab knowledge out there?

[Porsche virgin]

Yes I know they've been owned by Government Motors for years now. They are also pretty finicky with their electronics. But are there any years that are worth looking into as a daily driver?

They are pretty unloved and cheap right now.

Should I just back away slowly or turn and run screaming away from them?

Thanks.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/cto/1371150396.html

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=266058537&dealer_id=64430897&car_year=2004&rdm=1253021158333&model=&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=25&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=SAAB&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=10530&advanced=y&end_year=2010&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=25000&cardist=13&standard=false

[m21sniper]

I have a 97 Saab 900SE turbo. My partner has a 96. His is a 5 speed, mine is an auto, both are turbos.

They're both really reliable cars. The best part is that cops completely ignore them, ie, you can drive quite fast without drawing undue attention. With the stock exhaust they are very quiet.

Here's mine(well, a clone of mine):

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Get yourself a good set of Torx drivers, sockets, etc.

They have a few trouble spots, some of the motors have problems with oil sludging, (cant remember off the top of my head which ones)

900SE also informally referred to as the "NG900" can be had for really cheap.

I know that the 9-3 models are much more dialed in then the earlier 900SE models.

Find a Viggen if you can. Sorta like Saab's M3.

They are pretty reliable, well built, comfortable, and can be made to be god awful fast with a few mods.

[M.D. Holloway]

When you own a Saab, thats all you do is ...

[island911]

When GM got a hold of them they moved the cat-convtr upstream (in the exhaust. --for faster cat heat time on start-up) This put the hot cat under the oil-pan, which cooks the crap out of the oil, which clogs the oil pick-up which starves the engine of oil, which toasts the bearings. --ask me how I know.

If you get one/have one, change the oil often, and/or look for a '96(iirc) or older exhaust system.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by island911

When GM got a hold of them they moved the cat-convtr upstream (in the exhaust. --for faster cat heat time on start-up) This put the hot cat under the oil-pan, which cooks the crap out of the oil, which clogs the oil pick-up which starves the engine of oil, which toasts the bearings. --ask me how I know.

If you get one/have one, change the oil often, and/or look for a '96(iirc) or older exhaust system.

Or simply install a test pipe.

[island911]

Yep. Saab boards should have a sticky on this issue. --although it seems most have toasted themselves already.

[m21sniper]

Conversely, the earlier Saab 900's are dead balls reliable. Mine has 125k miles and runs strong as new, my partners has 165k miles, and is just as good.

Great interiors too, and really cheap to acquire a nice one, but the handling is just ok.

[sailchef]

My last SAAB (1987 9000), had 360,000 miles on it when I donated it to a buddy who will be using it for as a parts car. Get one of the older ones, pre 1988, convertable if you can find it. Reliable as any car I've had. Don't know anything about the newer one's.

[M.D. Holloway]

I had a 1972 Saab 99...I loved that car (when it worked).

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by sailchef

My last SAAB (1987 9000), had 360,000 miles on it when I donated it to a buddy who will be using it for as a parts car. Get one of the older ones, pre 1988, convertable if you can find it. Reliable as any car I've had. Don't know anything about the newer one's.

The 89-98s are just as reliable. And they have more power and nicer interiors.

[ramonesfreak]

i had an 83 turbo 900. sold it for $85. awsome car with a very cool and unusual interior but very rusty, leaking steering pump and the oil seemed to leak out of every possible spot. pretty reliable though

i love the mid-80's 900 models

[CurtEgerer]

I bought a 97 900SE Turbo Convertible for my wife several years ago. The power top mechanism is possibly the most convoluted example of automotive engineering ever known to the human species. And yes, I tried ALL of the so-called retro-fit improvement kits and spent thousands on it. There's very little your can do yourself since it requires special tools. In maybe 98 or 99 they went to a completely different hydraulic system. Since the car is my daughter's, I finally fixed it permanently by pulling the fuse and converting the car to a coupe. The top works flawlessly in coupe mode.

The other problem areas are the power seats and heater fan (they work when they want to work. Which isn't often.) and a few other electronic gremlins.

Mechanically, the car has been reliable.

[m21sniper]

I have had no problems with the heater system in mine, nor the seats. Some very wierd electrical gremlins related to the lights though.

[CurtEgerer]

I've read some info on the Saab boards about problems with the connectors under the pwr seats. Sometimes I guess they come apart. The car has been away at school with my daughter for a couple years so I haven't been able to check it. Might be something that simple.

The other thing of note is that here in Michigan, license plate fees are based upon the ORIGINAL MSRP of the car According to the State, this Turbo cab listed for $42,000 in 1997 so they tattoo me pretty good for that.

[m21sniper]

Ouch!

[Porsche virgin]

Thanks for the info, gents. The reviews are pretty mixed, I'd say. I'd be looking at a more modern one, so I guess I should look elsewhere.

The way I look at it, if I'm going to buy a used car that is going to be a minor headache with maintenance/repairs, I'd rather get a 330i. At least that will be fun to drive when the cooling system needs to be replaced or the window regulators fail!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Go drive one, you'll either love it or hate it. Super smooth turbo 4, great MPG, rockets on the highway at speed. I had a 1993 9000 Aero and a 1997 900SE. With just a boost controller, both were a blast at speed. Not just fun, but silly laugh out loud fun when they were under boost. The only downside was serious torque steer, but there are aftermarket solutions to help. Both of mine were very reliable, the Aero had 235k with zero engine or transmission work. Very high quality cars. In addition my sister in law has a 2003 9-3 with the low pressure turbo. It is a very nice driving car, and has had only minor electrical issues.

Personally, I think the used 9-5 Aero is an absolute steal. For under $10k you can find a 2004 (upgraded interior) with good miles in great shape. 250 HP, 30+ MPG, great ride and handling.

Also note that the sludge issues were largely due to extended oil change intervals. The engines affected have an extended warranty (10 year 100k miles I think).

[Brillo]

I have a 2001 9-5 sportwagon, bought it new. Minimal problems, it's a a fun car to drive but also very comfortable.

[speeder]

My experience is all with older Saabs, pre-'95 900s and old 96s. I've always loved that company and their cars but it's not an unconditional love. The older 900s were bullet-proof w/ proper maintenance with the exception of one glaring exception, the transmissions. Auto or manual, they all grenade way before the rest of the car does. They had other niggling problems w/ electrics, etc., but nothing out of the norm for affordable cars that were well-used. (Not fair to compare to MB or Toyota, IMO).

I'm friendly w/ the guys at Swedish Motors in L.A., a really good independent shop that only works on Saabs and Volvos. They are Swede immigrants and really know these cars in a way that dealer wrenches never could, (I worked at both Saab and Volvo dealers in another lifetime). The newest cars that they service are out of warranty and range back to cobbled-together examples w/ a zillion miles. My advice would be to find a shop like this in your town and make friends w/ them. Maybe stop by for some free advice followed-up by gift of high-test beer or the like. Swedes love beer. MN. has very similar shops, as you can imagine. Get them talking and they will give you an education on which models to avoid, problem areas, etc... Internet boards are good too, of course.

The trans issues are related to the Ruby Goldberg-esque design of the FWD trans coupled w/ an in-line engine in the older cars. Eldorados and Toronados had the same set-up in the old days, I guess it never occurred to engineers to turn the motor sideways(?) Honda actually had an inline FWD car more recently, (some Acura model), I'm guessing that they perfected that design somehow. Anyhow, on older Saabs it's the weak link of the drivetrain, even w/ the lower-powered varients. With the newer ones that you are considering, it's a non-issue. I still think about getting an older 900 w/ a fresh trans for a cheap driver, they are just miles ahead of some old Japanese car in comfort, space and build quality. I'd put them equal to older BMWs in overall quality and miles ahead in spacial design and driving comfort. I've had several old E-30s and E-28s, they are very run-of-the-mill cars for comfort and interior design. Any old Saab w/ boxy design blows them away, IMO.