I feel the same way. Until I see them accelerate, go around a corner, change directions & brake. Once I pick my lower jaw off the floor, check the remote to make sure the FF button isn't stuck on, then I remember why I watch F1 :)

Or did MS learn to cheat whilst racing for Flavio?

Of course not. He learned that instinctively whenever one of Frank Williams' cars threatened. Just ask JV or DH.





Tim

tchanson
You hit the nail on the head MS trying to runJV off the road and it backfired on him, he got stuck and JV was a champion, MS never really appolagized for it lost all kinds of points in the process too. Never liked that cheating B**tard, hated him after the JV thing. Was truly saddened when Aryton left us as he would still be stomping MS. All of the records that MS has were going to be Senna's except for most second place (first loser) finishes. No Doubt that Flav has taught lots of tricks to lots of drivers

I guess that racing for Flavio from 1991 until 1996 including 2 WDC's meant he learnt nothing from Flavio about 'bending the rules?'...

Or perhaps the list of suspected transgressions of the rules attributed to the Benetton team in that period, especially in 1995 might give a clue..traction control anyone...

Flavio was a ruthless operator... winning was his only aim...

Waaah.

I have a few good stories about really good "cheats" in race cars....I'll save those for another thread :)

"Cheating" used to mean finding the loophole in the rules which didn't cover an area which could certainly be exploited......and gain the advantage.
I love F1, it's like aircraft on wheels, probably why I like the red bull air racing series so much....

I think in time all the evidence will be released, right now it is all one sided from the FIA as far as what actually transpired.....could flabio actually be innocent? Yes.....but not likely imo.....
It comes down to what the actual evidence is against them, hopefully they wouldn't make this decision on heresay from piquet and others.....going by the radio transcripts it's hard to say......
I just think there more to this than we are being told......can we really trust mosley and bernie?
Who else is on the board? Anyone know?
I just want the facts....and no one seems to be giving them up....

Flavio was the world's luckiest sweater salesman, and it finally ran out.





Tim

I have to disagree Schumacher is the best F1 driver of all time and has almost every record beat. His records will never be matched. He would have stomped Senna. The only reason Senna became a legend is because he unfortunately got killed.

Senna was known to be rather ruthless in the car, not the saint he has become since his tregedy. A lot of the good ones are.

I am not even a Schumacher fan, but this I cannot deny. He's right about Senna too.

You really are a baby Sammy...

Lucky absolutely... but he made lots of his own luck..

Sorry but you have things a bit mixed up. The reason why Schuie won so many is that Senna was killed.

Senna wiped the floor with Schuie, there was no way to compare the two when they were in an equal car. Even off of the track Senna would not take any BS off of him, and believe twice had his hands around Schuie's throat while having a "come to Jesus" talk with him. Had Senna lived he would still be kicking Shuie's rear end.

Senna is a legend because he truely was one, especially in the rain. Very few people who have seen him in person would ever refute this. First time I saw him was at Monaco, where he was the absolute master. You can try to re-write history but it aint gonna work.

Bite me limey.

Ahh, so they WERE team-mates, then... I guess I missed that year.

Not meaning to pick a fight but we really didn't get to see Schumacher, in his prime, race against Senna in equal cars. I don't think any kind of relative parity was reached between two teams for many years after Senna died. There was usually one team that was a ways ahead of the rest in those years.

I think, had Senna lived, Schumi would have won fewer races and titles. No question. I think it would be interesting to have seen them go head to head for another 10 years. Since they didn't, we'll never know what the outcome would have been. They were both great drivers and more alike, in ways both good and bad, than they are given credit for.


JR

Again.. ignorant and wrong...

Hmmm... I think we saw the AS/MS battle pretty well... in 1992 and 1993 neither was in a top flight car.. the Benettons and McLarens were quite similar in performance...and if you look at those season's results they were very close overall in performance terms.

That gives some credibilty to the relative performances one could expect. But it did not happen.

One thing is certain is the whilst he may not have been the greatest ever driver he was the most motivated and determined to build the best team around him and 'demand' the best performance from them all. I'd say that a fundamental building block of his record is the reliability and relative infallibiltiy of the Ferrari team...That is unequalled and commands respect in itself.

During those dominating years MS won his races and WDCs without a shadow of a doubt.. it was when things were not gonig his way that the 'questionable' actions arose...and its under pressure that flaws are revealled.

As the saying goes.. we can see far because we are standing on the shoulders of giants...MS took AS's example and took it to the next level.. as AS had done by taking Alain Prost's example and taking up a notch..and so on...

Currently there does not appear to be a driver who is cutting new ground...certainly not FA or LH....but in a couple of years perhaps LH or Vettel will do so..politics permitting.

I think the battles in 1992 and 1993 showed neither of them to their best. I have a hard time recalling 1992 but the McLaren was a turd in 1993. In any case, while Senna was probably at the top of his game, Schumacher was years away from peaking. So it's hard for me to decide which one would have ended up on top. I truly wish Senna hadn't been taken from us.

JR

The point remains that F1 is a joke. As long as Bernie is there, it will only be about the money, and since Ferrari fans spend more than anyone else, the FIA will pander to them - which they undoubtedly do.

Yes, Renault broke the rules. They should be punished for it.

Yes, McLaren broke the rules. They should also be punished for it.

Do you guys honestly think Ferrari is as pure as the driven snow? Gimmee a break. They've either just not been caught yet or they have been caught and the money players (Bernie et al) behind the scenes) made it all go away before it became public.

There's sleaze in every single F1 team out there on the grid. I also seem to remember a rather controversial incident where Schumi "overcooked" a routine corner and speared the tire wall a couple of seasons ago, but nobody seemed to care, right?

The friggin' tifosi bias in F1 makes it practically insufferable. And I actually like their cars.