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MFAFF 09-23-2009 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog (Post 4913666)
I think the battles in 1992 and 1993 showed neither of them to their best. I have a hard time recalling 1992 but the McLaren was a turd in 1993.
Both cars were 'second rate for certain.. the McL's in particular with very poor engines...Peugoet I recall...and Benetton were getting onto it at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog (Post 4913666)
In any case, while Senna was probably at the top of his game, Schumacher was years away from peaking. So it's hard for me to decide which one would have ended up on top. I truly wish Senna hadn't been taken from us.

JR
I think its because they were working very hard at building decent team and car that the comparison is interesting...it shows how similar they were and how driven...1994 was shaping up to be a great season.

javadog 09-23-2009 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 4913710)
I also seem to remember a rather controversial incident where Schumi "overcooked" a routine corner and speared the tire wall a couple of seasons ago, but nobody seemed to care, right?
You're probably talking about Monaco, where he was alledged to have crashed on purpose, to ruin the flying lap of another driver, so that he could secure the pole. Actually, he was sanctioned for it and there was a huge stink in the press, which lasted for months...

JR

Axeman 09-23-2009 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeaksa (Post 4913371)
Sorry but you have things a bit mixed up. The reason why Schuie won so many is that Senna was killed.

Senna wiped the floor with Schuie, there was no way to compare the two when they were in an equal car. Even off of the track Senna would not take any BS off of him, and believe twice had his hands around Schuie's throat while having a "come to Jesus" talk with him. Had Senna lived he would still be kicking Shuie's rear end.

Senna is a legend because he truely was one, especially in the rain. Very few people who have seen him in person would ever refute this. First time I saw him was at Monaco, where he was the absolute master. You can try to re-write history but it aint gonna work.

I don't need to re-write history, the records from Schumi are here forever to prove it. He is the greatest of all time and a true German perfect driving "machine". I think you have it all mixed up, but just like me, you're entitled to your opinion.

MFAFF 09-23-2009 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 4913872)
I don't need to re-write history, the records from Schumi are here forever to prove it..
No, the records show he was the most successful. That's all.
Greatness is a quality, not a result.

Nobody can argue with his success... but the methods that were employed by him and his team (s) have at times been questionable.
He is not alone in this at all...and the other very successful drivers are by no means lily ****e in this regard either...certainly not Senna.

bell 09-23-2009 08:38 AM
Although MS has an outstanding driving career, senna will always be king imo :)

Let's get back to the current renault situation....has anyone published the FIA's facts yet? Other than the radio transcripts.....

javadog 09-23-2009 08:43 AM
Well, there's mention of a fourth person who knew of the plan and became a witness for the FIA. No names, although he/she is a Renault team member that was present at that race and argued against the plane to crash Piquet's car.

Them there's the statement by the council member from the middle east who indicates the outcome was agreed by all parties prior to the hearing...

JR

Axeman 09-23-2009 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFAFF (Post 4913907)
No, the records show he was the most successful. That's all.
Greatness is a quality, not a result.

Nobody can argue with his success... but the methods that were employed by him and his team (s) have at times been questionable.
He is not alone in this at all...and the other very successful drivers are by no means lily ****e in this regard either...certainly not Senna.
Questionable? Do you think Senna was a saint? You think he didn't cheat? Somehow Senna fans think getting killed automatically erases all the BS he pulled and makes him a saint. He was a great driver and Schumacher is just as good, and if Senna would have lived we would have seen some awesome racing. Unfortunately he got killed and Schumacher went on to set amazing records.
Reminds me of die-hard Jimi Hendrix fans, because he died it made him the best..

MFAFF 09-23-2009 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 4913941)
Questionable? Do you think Senna was a saint? You think he didn't cheat? Somehow Senna fans think getting killed automatically erases all the BS he pulled and makes him a saint. He was a great driver and Schumacher is just as good, and if Senna would have lived we would have seen some awesome racing. Unfortunately he got killed and Schumacher went on to set amazing records.
Reminds me of die-hard Jimi Hendrix fans, because he died it made him the best..
Errr... you might want to reread what I wrote... Senna was no saint and made no bones about it...

Neither are glowing examples of sporting attitudes.


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