Train wreck involving the software that the board runs on.

stomachmonkey · 10-14-2009, 07:42 PM

vBulletin Pre-sales Questions - vBulletin Community Forum

Not easy to follow but basically they are releasing a major version soon, very soon, maybe.

They are basically forcing everyone into a new price structure or if you choose not to upgrade you'll be stuck without any patch/update support.

Kicker is the discount pricing ends Oct 30 but they do not have the software ready fro release nor have they set a date for it. There is not even a demo to evaluate before you pay the upgrade price.

If your current support expires before Oct 30 and you don't renew you'll need to buy from scratch.

Or pay up now for something that you don't know when you will get it or if you'll even want it when released.

Handled poorly.

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

Maybe Wayne will write his own...

HardDrive · 10-14-2009, 09:38 PM

phpBB

stomachmonkey · 10-15-2009, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardDrive

phpBB

phpBB is by no means a slouch but vBullettin is a better product.

The board running on my current vB license is for a game title that will naturally end of life itself in a year, two max so I'm not going to renew anything and let it ride itself out. I was going to keep the license active so I could migrate it to another title when needed.

For the new license I decided we will switch to phpBB. I've already done the install and am working on the interface.

Shame, 2 days ago they had a $500 order from me, today they have $0.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

We were looking at utilizing it for a client, and we had a very specific queston about functionality that was critical. It was a show-stopper.

We asked the question on the presales section and their response? "Yes" so I ask "how?" the response? "We do not offer technical support advice here."

In other words they are so paranoid about people trying to get "free help" for unlicensed versions they won't answer deep functional questions on the presales board. I explained to them that all I wanted to know was "how is ths particular thing done?" and they still wouldn't answer. It was the most unbelievable thing. I had to go use their online demo and try figure it out for myself.

stomachmonkey · 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstreit

In other words they are so paranoid about people trying to get "free help" for unlicensed versions they won't answer deep functional questions on the presales board. I explained to them that all I wanted to know was "how is ths particular thing done?" and they still wouldn't answer. It was the most unbelievable thing. I had to go use their online demo and try figure it out for myself.

And now your problem is if what you needed was doable in the curent version there is no guarantee that it will still be possible in V4. Highly likely it will be but....

And without a V4 demo how are you to know?

If you buy now you may have egg on your face when V4 releases.

If you wait for V4 it'll cost you twice as much.

Really weird how they are handling this.

willtel · 10-15-2009, 08:28 AM

That is weird, no way would I pay up without a release date and solid demo of what was being released. How much does this software cost? Is it priced on the number of users?

I've always like the look of ZeroForum but have no experience managing it.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Sounds like a cash flow issue. A s/w company I used to work for did something similar, and 6 months later they were t*ts up.

stomachmonkey · 10-15-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willtel

That is weird, no way would I pay up without a release date and solid demo of what was being released. How much does this software cost? Is it priced on the number of users?

I've always like the look of ZeroForum but have no experience managing it.

Pre sale depending on status of your support license is $130. Regular Price will be $250.

Current version went for $180 with yearly renewable support at $40. Total hit is $220 to get into second year of ownership.

What they have done is remove the yearly support subscription and rolled it into the out the door price. You will get support until they get to V5 however long that takes. If it takes 3 years you saved a couple of bucks. If they roll out a major release every year you'll be paying through the nose.

Not a huge amount of cash but the license is tied to a domain name so there are people out there with multiple licenses, some with as many as 25. So their "renew" hit just went from 25 x $40 to 25 x $100+ (not sure of what the volume discount is but it's not substantial.)

In my situation, had I placed and paid for my support upgrade last week I'd be out that $40 this week. For the new license that I was going to pick up I'd be out the $180. In both cases I'd still need to pay the $130 for each one to get the new version with support. So $260+$180+$40 just to get current a week later.

stomachmonkey · 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by widebody911

Sounds like a cash flow issue. A s/w company I used to work for did something similar, and 6 months later they were t*ts up.

Yeah, if you look back over the last year they made a big deal out of reminding people to renew their support just before a numbers release and looking at the K it seems to have worked.

This pre-sale seems to be tied to pumping up Q4 numbers.

The whole pay once for each major version release seems calculated to enable them to enable cash flow on demand.

Need more money?

V4.3 just jumped to V5 overnight.

stomachmonkey · 10-15-2009, 09:13 AM

Had not realized this till now.

vBulletin was bought by Internet Brands.

They are the guys that have been buying up all the really active enthusiast forums.

They are the people that bought Rennlist.

pwd72s · 10-15-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Had not realized this till now.

vBulletin was bought by Internet Brands.

They are the guys that have been buying up all the really active enthusiast forums.

They are the people that bought Rennlist.

Hmmmm...I'm not computer literate, but this I understand.

campbellcj · 10-15-2009, 09:03 PM

Sorry to hear about the squirrely management decisions - we were getting ready to pull the trigger on this platform for a user group discussion board in my company, but now I guess more due diligence is warranted.

stomachmonkey · 10-16-2009, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by campbellcj

Sorry to hear about the squirrely management decisions - we were getting ready to pull the trigger on this platform for a user group discussion board in my company, but now I guess more due diligence is warranted.

vBulletin is a top notch product. Really best in class.

If you are a 1st time purchaser then the current shenanigans would not affect you since no previous "contract" between you two exists.

Really your only cause for concern would be how the new management is behaving and what that could mean from a customer satisfaction point in the future.

There are rumblings that their actions are motivated by cash shortage issues and that the new licensing structure is a way for them to turn up the revenue stream pretty much on demand.

Since you now pay renewal at every milestone version there is nothing to prevent them from going from version 4.X to version 5 at any time and triggering millions of renewals.

Joeaksa · 10-16-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardDrive

phpBB

Been running PHP for years now on my bulletin board and love it. Updated to V3.0.5 and its much better than the previous versions.

stomachmonkey · 10-16-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Been running PHP for years now on my bulletin board and love it. Updated to V3.0.5 and its much better than the previous versions.

I like phpBB. Really good product. Among the top three available and it's open source to boot.

If I were setting up an enthusiast site no question go with the open source option.

The sites I need the forums for are tied to products that we develop and sell.

Meaning if something goes tits up in the middle of the night it needs to be dealt with right away.

So there is a bit of motivation to pay the premium for a dedicated support option and not lose sleep over it.

But I'm also big on "do the right thing" which I don't feel Internet Brands cares to much about.

So long story short am leaving my vBulletins sites as is and all new will be phpBB.

Joeaksa · 10-16-2009, 08:43 AM

Have to say that we had a problem with ours and it was fixed with help from the PHP forum within an hour.

Know what you mean about "it has to work right now" but free is hard to beat.