Why do so many high performance vehicles come with summer only tires?

[turbo6bar]

Express your frustration to the dealer/seller and ask if they'd be willing to switch the sedan out for a Kia sedan with all-season tires. You might be surprised at their response... it's worth a shot.

[89911]

Originally Posted by azasadny

My 2007 and 2010 MazdaSpeed3's both came with 18" low profile wheels and performance (summer only) tires. I buy 16" steel rims and Bridgestone Blizzak snow tires for the winter and just switch them after the snow season ends. I don't believe in "all season" tires and they seem to not do anything very well, as they are a compromise in design/purpose.

I can assure you that your car does well in the snow. Unfortunately, going down 2 inches and putting a snow tire on absolutely kills the cars performance for the winter (and looks). I've been there. I had a Volvo wagon that I used for several winters and I couldn't wait to get them off and get the right size rim and tire on the car. It handled horribly with the smaller wheels and big tires with suv sized sidewalls.

[DavidB911]

I recently switched from AS to summer only on the daily transportation and these tires haven't screeched or anything during cornering or stopping. The AS tires I had did would start screaming when I would push them in the corners or stop fast.

Its fun to drive a car in the winter. You can drift a bit around corners and stuff. A car is going to rust anyways so you might as well as enjoy it.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by 89911

Why would I want to buy a car with tires that a useless for 1/2 of the year? Your arguement goes both ways. It is not the SNOW I am concerned about. Summer tires should not be used below 50 degrees. They loose a major amount of there grip once they get cold. I got this from the TireRack. And the all seasons I am talking about aren't the ones sitting out in front of a Sears.

Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position

Lose. Loose= pants.

Jesus. Are you a driver or a consumer? if your tyres are cold, go faster.

[89911]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Lose. Loose= pants.

Jesus. Are you a driver or a consumer? if your tyres are cold, go faster.

?? It's tires (tyres?) also.

[MotoSook]

You're buying a performance sedan, why?

It'd be like contracting a track star and then want him/her to run with velcro strapped street shoes instead of nicely laced spikes.

[89911]

Originally Posted by Soukus

You're buying a performance sedan, why?

It'd be like contracting a track star and then want him/her to run with velcro strapped street shoes instead of nicely laced spikes.

So I am suppose to A. run summer tires here in January and February when the average temps are in the 20's. or B. Buy winter wheels/tires and drive these on clear roads just in case I am caught in the snow. C. Drive a Camry because I don't live in Florida or California. I don't get how people think a $300 Bridgestone Pole Position tire is such a compromise (and its about the same price as the Continenals that come on it). I'm not taking the car to the track and hitting turns so hard with my family inside the wheels are screaching.

I will conclude that no one here gets my point. Yes, maybe for BMW it makes better financial sense to put summer tires on the car and send them across the United States. But it really is stupid to sell a car that has heated seats, steering wheel, and a complete cold package and then be told that the car can't be driven in half of the country during the winter months. I guess they expect you to buy the BMW winter wheel/tire setup for $2500 available at the dealer.

[Tervuren]

Whats that($2500), less than 5% of the car's cost? Common...

Someone can pick up an extra set of wheels and then get whatever winter tire(or all season) you want and just switch them out with the season. A lot of high performance cars are stored in bad weather anyway and their owners take out something else, so it is perfectly understandable for a manufacturer to pick a tire that will please the majority of its customers. Also magazine comparisons are almost always done in good weather, standard equipment that gives it the best shot at winning is also a good idea.

If Someone is complaining about spending a couple hundred to get a cheap set of wheels and put the tire of their choice on it for the winter, an expensive car is probably not for them.

[Dantilla]

For average drivers, All-Season tires make sense. I refuse to buy them. Here in the Seattle area, snow is such a rare thing that I simply drive my truck with the agressive tires if we get any snow.

Several Summer performance tires are absolutely fantastic in the rain, a much bigger factor here.

The Porsche has Michellin Pilot Sports. Amazing tire. The Miata has Goodyear F1 DS-G3 tires, and can corner better in the rain than on the old All-Season tires I tossed soon after I bought the car.

But I agree, in some areas, owning only one set of All-Season tires is a fair compromise for year-round driving.

[willtel]

Have you ever thought about just winging it and seeing how they perform in the cold? Of course traction is going to diminish as the temp drops but you aren't going to be doing 360s in your driveway because you went out for milk when it was 49 degrees. I'm sure that car will come with a plethora of electronic nannies to help you keep it between the ditches.

Sometimes less grip can be more entertaining, I prefer driving my 930 with 265s in the rear as opposed to the 315s it came with, the limits are much lower and it is safer and easier to learn how the car reacts at the limit. If it is a true performance sedan don't be afraid to wag the tail out a little.

[masraum]

I run summers all year round here (It's never REALLY winter, maybe a couple days of the year). The only time that I really notice that the traction is WAY of is when the temps are down close to freezing. At 50° they work plenty well. At 35° or so they lose a lot of their traction, but as stated, I don't normally drive that fast in the cold, and we only have cold like that for a handful of days here.

My experience with All Season tires is that their traction always sucks regardless of the temp. So, they are similar to the summers in the cold, but much, much worse in the warm. It seems like AS tires are usually stiffer rubber and more aggressive tread patterns. I don't think you get into the fancy cold weather rubber until you go to true winter tires.

[Dave L]

I had ultra high performance all season tires on my old mazda. They were okay in the summer but absolutly useless in the snow. Now if you dont really get snow I would think performance allseasons would be okay, otherwise I would buy a set of snow tires. The summer tires will absolutly be bad in the cold. I have Pilot sports on my 944 and they feel very greasy in the cold.

I am a beliver in snow tires but I also live in the snowbelt and am at the ski hill twice per week

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by 125shifter

I'd run summers all year if you don't have to worry (too much) about snow and ice.

Only thing that bothers me is when it gets down below 20... And it has been known to stay there for close to a week around here.... Course the 944 isnt a dd anyways....

Looks like I am buying summer tires after I finishing roasting these all seasons....

[89911]

I appreciate the opinions. Like I said, I have two cars that run dedicated snow tires on them. I have a big garage, but storing 12 tires doesn't go unnoticed. And its not the money either. The car comes with 19 wheels and they don't make a snow tire to fit these, so the only option is smaller, narrower rims with dedicated snow tires. If you think all seasons are a compromise, dedicated snow tires make the car's handling worse in all conditions other then snow. The car has good summer tires on it now, I am going to pick up some all seasons for the winter and if I hate how it drives, I'll put them back on in the spring. I am concerned about getting stuck in a surprise snow storm with summer tires this year and getting stuck or worse.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by willtel

Sometimes less grip can be more entertaining,

Most fun ever on public roads was the Miata before the tire change. Easily controlled drifting around corners, while going not much faster than traffic, so there was never any worry about attracting the attention of law enforcement. Can't do that with the Porsche on sticky tires- Gotta be going way too fast to get them loose.

When my wife quit driving it in the rain because it wouldn't stop, I decided that was enough- We have to have good wet performance around here.

[CurtEgerer]

Summer-only tires are absolute crap in temps below 40 degrees. The soft rubber compound hardens when it gets cold. Below freezing? They are downright dangerous. When the Porsche Cayenne first came out, many were equipped with summer-only tires. And owners with a poor-understanding of tire technology figured they could use them in winter because the vehicle had AWD! There were even claims made against Porsche that the braking and/or AWD systems were defective when these morons started running into fixed objects

'Ultra High Performance All Season' is what you want, but the term is misleading - they should be called 'Ultra Hi Performance Cold Temperature' tires. These are the only hi-perf option available for cold temps. I just put a set of Kumho Ecsta AST's on one of my quattros and they're great. They're probably marginal in snow, but I won't be driving the car in snow.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by masraum

I run summers all year round here (It's never REALLY winter, maybe a couple days of the year). The only time that I really notice that the traction is WAY of is when the temps are down close to freezing. At 50° they work plenty well. At 35° or so they lose a lot of their traction, but as stated, I don't normally drive that fast in the cold, and we only have cold like that for a handful of days here.

I agree. My (old...) Pilots are fine right until about 35 degrees, then they SIGNIFICANTLY lose grip. It's like night and day. The other problem is that when it's 35ish, we get condensation and the beginning of frost on the streets, and that irritates it.

But, I think that happened 3 times last winter. Big deal, makes for a more interesting drive home

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by 89911

...going down 2 inches and putting a snow tire on absolutely kills the cars performance for the winter (and looks). I've been there. I had a Volvo wagon that I used for several winters and I couldn't wait to get them off and get the right size rim and tire on the car. It handled horribly with the smaller wheels and big tires with suv sized sidewalls.

Seriously, dude... I hope this doesn't offend you, but you're beginning to sound like one of those people who have to have something to b!tch and moan about all the time.

You live in Pittsburgh.

You need snow tires for the winter, not A/S tires.

Get some cheap steel wheels and snow tires, put them on, suck it up, and quit complaining about the looks and the handling.

There's no other graceful way to get through until spring if you're gonna drive it.

Do you plan to enter it in car shows or autocross it before winter is over?

[89911]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Summer-only tires are absolute crap in temps below 40 degrees. The soft rubber compound hardens when it gets cold. Below freezing? They are downright dangerous. When the Porsche Cayenne first came out, many were equipped with summer-only tires. And owners with a poor-understanding of tire technology figured they could use them in winter because the vehicle had AWD! There were even claims made against Porsche that the braking and/or AWD systems were defective when these morons started running into fixed objects

'Ultra High Performance All Season' is what you want, but the term is misleading - they should be called 'Ultra Hi Performance Cold Temperature' tires. These are the only hi-perf option available for cold temps. I just put a set of Kumho Ecsta AST's on one of my quattros and they're great. They're probably marginal in snow, but I won't be driving the car in snow.

Thanks, this is what I was afraid of and just didn't want to risk it with summer only tires. I appreciate the time you took to give an informative and useful answer unlike the useless one above.

[Heel n Toe]

Heh heh. Useless, huh?

Just what is it that you learned from Curt's "informative and useful answer," 89? Others here have told you essentially the same thing, but you kept b!tching. You could have figured out what you needed to do without starting this thread.

Curt told you about his Kumho AST's, but he said he wasn't going to drive them in snow, right? He said they're probably marginal in snow, yet you're concerned about getting stuck in a surprise snow storm.

Originally Posted by 89911

dedicated snow tires make the car's handling worse in all conditions other then snow. ::::::::::::::::::::::I am going to pick up some all seasons for the winter :::::::::::::::::::I am concerned about getting stuck in a surprise snow storm with summer tires this year and getting stuck or worse.

Did you want sympathy from us that bad ol' BMW didn't put an A/S tire on the car?

Or did you want suggestions for what to do? I offered one about asking the dealer if he'd switch 'em out for you.

Or did you just want to complain and see if others complained with you?

What are you gonna do? Are you gonna "pick up some all seasons for the winter?"

You shouldn't drive it in snow unless you have snow tires on it.

So I guess you could call a cab on snow days if you can't drive one of your other vehicles, right?